howdy - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:19 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
howdy

ok here goes again.... ok just wanted to say hello first my name is david and im glad to be a member of the forum.im new to rodding this is my first real rod been around them all my life but never really had one and dont know anything so im learning as i go. i have quite a few questions i hope yall can help . so here goes with what ive got ill try to list all the info i can to make it easier to answer. ok i got a 1977 camaro with a 454 t 350 tranny 373 or 383 gears not sure not sure on the stall either it feels like it has a small one though the cars weigh 3800 and some change is gonna be a vette stang eater and strip every now and then. ok i tore the motor apart due to a balancer bolt gone awol and wearing a groove in the snout of the crank. so i figured while i was there go crazy! ok here is what the motor has
stock 454 heds 119 cc chamber stainless valves an old school tarantula single plane intake a holley 850 double pumper 30 over trw pistons stock crank and rods and a 125 shot of nos . the car ran consistent 7 .20 in the 1/8 i saw four or five time slips . i guess thats pretty good for the specs not sure though like i said im new. the compression was 11 so he said the guy that built the motor said...thats neither here nor there just letting yall know the cam that was in the car is this one http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2162&gid=290 it has hooker comp headers looks to be 2 inch tubes with 3 and a quarter main tube to the best of my measuring. it has an over size griffith alum rad with a little sqautty 14 inch fan that barely covered the whole rad which brings me to a question. the little time i drove it around it always ran 200 210 and over heated one time the guy thats building the motor said it wasnt pulling enough with that fan around 950 cfm since then but havent ran it yet ive gotton a twin 12 inch and the shroud covers the whole rad and supposed to pull 2850 cfm my engine guy said thats plenty of fan now it had a mech hv edelbrock water pump too i replaced it with a new one would the little single fan make it run hot thats my first question and does the set up he had sound odd in any way? do those sound like decent times any idea on hp numbers?? next ill post what ive ordered for the new monster eating right now lol

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:33 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ok first off i got a set of afr alum heads 115cc chambers with 325 runners i got the cast http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=68_72 i got a victor jr intake keeping the double pumper keeping the 30 over pistons 0 decked they said the compression will be 10 1 to 1 with a 0.41 mls gasket. got scat forged crank stock measuments . stock eagle h beam rods arp rod bolts. arp stud kit with windage tray for the crank. clevite main and rod bearings. tci flexplate fluid dampner brand balancer 8 inch. the pistons are trw. these are my cam choices and would like all opinions please i want to keep low end torque and still run up top good with the above mentioned cam i use to have it ran awsome but i know i got diff heads etc etc so cam choice might be comp diff based on what i want . which one of these will be my best choice for low end grunt and still have good top end and going to the strip every now and then? or does anyone suggest a better choice im no real sure on how lifts and duration work im just going by what the tech said . here r the cams
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2161&gid=290

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2162&gid=290

thanks guys!!

ps will this set up make a noticable difference vs the first set up the motor had. any ideas on hp for this motor?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 09:01 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
forgot to mention i have hooker comp headers will these work with these heads or will i need something else thanks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2010, 12:58 AM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,564
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 697
Thanked 877 Times in 745 Posts
Need piston part number.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2010, 05:39 AM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Its an l 2465 30 over piston . What do u need to know about the piston other than what I told u? Is there something I miseed? Sorry just trying to learn as I go. Thanks for your help
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:37 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,564
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 697
Thanked 877 Times in 745 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribmaster
What do u need to know about the piston other than what I told u?
Needed dome volume to figure static compression ratio.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRW-L2465F/
"They said it will be 10:1" just doesn't cut it. You need to be able to figure this stuff for yourself to know what you have. If you don't know what you have for sure, how are you going to know which way to go if you want to change it?

.7854 times 4.28 times 4.28 times 4 times 16.387 yields 943 cc's in the cylinder.

Piston domes are 27.1 cc's, so if we deduct that from the combustion chamber cc's of 115, we get 87.9 cc chambers.

That's the same as removing the pop-up from the piston and sticking it up in the chamber, so it leaves the piston at zero, neither plus nor minus, so the piston value is zero.

The piston is zero decked, so the piston deck height volume is zero.

The gasket is probably 4.380" X 0.041", like this Fel-Pro Z-1071, so you can either figure the cc's mathmatically or look it up on Summit's site and they will tell you the volume in cc's....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FPP-1071/
In this case, the gasket has 10.6 cc's of volume.

Now we add up all the values, 943, 87.9 and 10.6 and find a total volume drawn in with the intake valve open of 1041.5 cc's.

Now we leave out the cylinder volume and add up everything else where the compressed volume will be with the piston at top dead center, 87.9 and 10.6, for a compressed total of 98.5 cc's.

All that's left is to divide the larger by the smaller and find a 10.57:1 static compression ratio.

Being armed with the correct SCR will allow you to speak more intelligently with parts suppliers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:33 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well is 10 to 1 a lot diff rhan 10 to 5? I would still have a close figue of my compression according to them. Granted your figure is perfect if that's the way u come up with the figure but man its like greek to me lol like I said I'm new and learning. Thanks for the tip as far as being armed I always am hehe. Do u have any idears on the othe questions such as the old motor vs the new motor hp and tor numbers and the heating issue and the cam question? Thanks for your help man I value accurate info. Ps I sent response via email thru my phone hours ago and it hasn't posted so if it shows up 5 hours from now sorry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:56 AM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,564
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 697
Thanked 877 Times in 745 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribmaster
Do u have any idears on the othe questions such as the old motor vs the new motor hp and tor numbers and the heating issue and the cam question
Lunati 60230 563 hp @5500, 596 ft/lbs @4000, 508 ft/lbs @2000.

Lunati 60231, 583 hp @5500, 598 ft/lbs @4500, 491 ft/lbs @2000.

Lunati 60232, 601 hp @6000, 598 ft/lbs @4500, 471 ft/lbs @2000.

Lunati 60233, 609 hp @6000, 595 ft/lbs @5000, 448 ft/lbs @2000.

CompCams 11-700-9, 663 hp @6000, 633 ft/lbs @5000, 456 ft/lbs @2000.

As far as any cooling issues, I haven't had any cooling issues with the stuff I have put together. I was raised on mechanical OEM 18", 7-blade steel fans, driven off the water pump with a viscous drive fan clutch, a full, well-fitting shroud and a radiator sized to the task. Personally, I wouldn't give you two cents for any of the electric fans.

Read through this wiki article and use it as a checklist to see if you can get your system bulletproofed.....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...cooling_system

Last edited by techinspector1; 07-29-2010 at 01:01 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 01:47 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks tech for all the diff. Figures I appreactie it bud! The cam I ordered was 60234 can u work your magic on it for me. On what it would produce ty sir
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 01:54 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
One more quick question tech. Would the hooker 2 inch primary into a 3 1/2 main be a decent header to run witrh the new set up? That's what was on there. Can headers make it run hot if there too big or small? What air filter would u recomend it has a 4 inch cowl hood on it now it had a 3 and had a little round kand n can too little filter make it run hot seems like it would make it run lean being that small?. Thanks man hollar if yu want ill ship you some ribs from my resturant for all the good info you have helped me with ty!

Last edited by ribmaster; 07-29-2010 at 02:03 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 06:40 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I mean too littke a filter make it run rich from lack of proper air flow
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 09:15 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,564
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 697
Thanked 877 Times in 745 Posts
Sling that filter over the fence and step up to a filter that's big enough to let the motor breathe, 14" x 3" minimum in my opinion, 14" x 4" would be even better if you can fit it in there. If you can't fit it in there, take a Sawzall to the hood until it fits. I have no respect at all for sheetmetal when it interferes with boltin' on the right parts to make hp.

It just makes me ill when somebody says something like "I don't have room for full length headers". HOLEY MOLEY, make room. At 10.57:1 SCR, the 2" headers on your motor will be fine in my opinion. More SCR or more cubic inches might call for more header.

I guess it is a requirement that all of us should overcam the first few motors we build and you're no exception. In my opinion, the 60231 would have been about right, but whatever. All you're doing by ratcheting up on the cam timing is moving the power band higher and higher. What percentage of the time do you think you'll be running the motor over 5500 rpm's? What percentage of the time do you think you'll be operating at less than 4000 rpm's? I'd guess maybe 99% of the time. But hey, whatever. It's your build.

Lunati 60234, 614 hp @6000, 591 ft/lbs @5000, 428 ft/lbs @2000 rpm. Power band 3000 to 7200.

Remember when you asked this question?....
"which one of these will be my best choice for low end grunt"
Well, the 60234 ain't the answer.

Ran all Dynosims with 850 carb and RPM/Stealth intake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 09:22 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How r the numbers coming up diff tech I noticed the comp cam u listed and the one I chose are near the same what gives the comp the edge well most of the time it won't see that high of a rpm except at the track where I would want the max hp and torque I guess I could. Go even more aggresive and get even more but I'm trying to get somewhere in the middle and its a fiberglass hood no need for a sawzall if I didn't wanna a bigger filter I woulndet have stepped uo to a 4 inch cowl which cost me another 450 bucks I wanna let it brethe that's why I asked what would be a good filter
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 09:27 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,564
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 697
Thanked 877 Times in 745 Posts
I guess you'll just have to experience an over-cammed motor to know what to do next time. Start saving some money for a rebuild, 'cause I think you're gonna be runnin' over the crankshaft when you try to use all that cam.

"what gives the comp the edge"
Lobe separation angle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2010, 09:27 PM
ribmaster's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: tyler tx of course
Age: 41
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Stealth intake?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sorry for the short howdy but howdy jims72 Introduce Yourself 3 05-10-2011 09:24 PM
Howdy, Howdy Hearseman Introduce Yourself 1 02-20-2010 03:02 PM
Howdy Y'all! enigma57 Introduce Yourself 5 07-03-2009 09:41 AM
Howdy, 86_cookiemonster Introduce Yourself 2 09-21-2008 07:14 PM
Howdy Folks moldy Introduce Yourself 4 08-22-2008 10:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.