Hot Rod Forum banner

HVLP Gun Harbor Freight - 68843

28K views 32 replies 9 participants last post by  shine 
#1 ·
Great forum you guys have here! I was able to find so much information before I started the espresso machine refinish project, it was very nice.

Anyway, I never could find good close-up results of a newbie like me using this gun, and although I haven't had any 'real' problems with it's use, I wanted to post some questions and examples of how it worked for me.

Here you will see the 1.4mm tip spraying nason 2k primer (which was sebsequently sanded to 400 gritt), then the Standox Base and then Nason 2k clear with all the appropriate mixes and activators.

I still got a few bubbles popping up through the paint (see final photo), how do you guys address this after the clear is down, just wet send and compound them out? to try and diminish them?
 

Attachments

See less See more
5
#2 ·
I've just started painting with the same gun, and having similar issues in my epoxy, 2K primer, and single stage satin black. Overall looks good, but you can't sand the satin black. Luckily the satin black was practice on a lawn mover...

Next will be some SS gloss black and SS gloss red... I am also curious if those imperfections pictured are the kinds of things that will wetsand right out or what???

I am curious if it is the gun, or the environment/temp/moisture, etc???

I am contemplating going with a finishline4... But would like to know for sure it is the gun before I spend $200...

I really hope it isn't moisture causing it, because I thought I had safeguarded against this enough:

50ft of hose going into to a big canister filter; then 12ft of copper tubing coiled in a bucket of ice water with a water trap after; then 25 ft of hose; another water trap; then another 25 ft of hose to the disposable filter on the gun.

I can post some pics of what mine is doing also...
 
#6 ·
The primer looked....

The primer looked pretty good I thought, but then again it was going to be sanded, so I didn't mind the peal in the primer.

The issue of bubbling was more problematic with the base, and not an issue with the clear. I think the bubbling came up / became present after the base went down and then became an issue when those bubbles bubbled up through the clear when it went down.

Not sure why the bubbles happened, but might be water, or other problem in the paint when it went down.

I had a small moisture filter from Harbor Freight but that was it, and it was pretty hammered with water when I got done spraying for the day.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Yeah, the primer looked like it went on a little better, but I was referring to the little specs here and there in the primer. Not a big deal once sanded, but if those end up in the paint, I am curious how easily they wetsand out of a single stage glossy finish???

The red looks orange peely, and should wetsand out right? What I was looking at was the spots of stuff/bubbles craters in the red paint... Or some stuff put there by the wind?

I was looking at the spots I circled below: I am not sure what to call these, but I would like to know hoe to get rid of it...
 

Attachments

#8 ·
From what I can tell...

In the link provided above (very helpful by the way!) I may have just been laying down the paint to thick.
When your pressure in the spray gun drops because you have a compressor not rated for the gun you are using (me) the base coat can be VERY hard to lay down evenly without to much base. The gun drops pressure and then then causes the paint to get laid down very thick.

I think my problem was laying the base coat to thick, having to much moisture in the lines (not starting from an empty tank like I did on day one) and maybe if I had given the base coat a lighter coat with more time in-between flashing (I flashed for 5-10 min as recommended, I might have gotten better off-gassing to occur flatter paint etc...

That is my theory so far, so I am going to try and address my poor compressor / airline problem (run 1/2" line and improve my moisture problem first) then pick up a better gun.
 
#10 ·
Thanks

Wow! I guess I should have given way more time to my flash time. Live and learn.

However upon inspection and further testing of my setup, I need the following.


1. Way way more filtration
When I tested last night I took a look at the air running straight out of the compressor and it was sooooo oily and watery. No way my itty bitty filter could hold up to that, and my air volume dropped by 60-75% when using that filter.


2. Need probably another 10 gallons of volume to spray with this gun and a 3/8 hose so the line will recover quicker when I take my finger off the trigger.


By spraying one pass with my arm, then releasing trigger, and spraying the next pass, I can do that probably for a whole door panel before my volume drops to far for my gun to work improperly if I had good free flowing filtration and good volume.


I don't plan on ever spraying an entire car, but if I did, I would just add a second harbor freight compressor into the system and run them both to keep up with the gun.


More details to come, but I honestly know that my craters were due to contamination in the air line, not so much with poor gun performance.


Ian
 
#11 ·
Wow! I guess I should have given way more time to my flash time. Live and learn.

However upon inspection and further testing of my setup, I need the following.


1. Way way more filtration
When I tested last night I took a look at the air running straight out of the compressor and it was sooooo oily and watery. No way my itty bitty filter could hold up to that, and my air volume dropped by 60-75% when using that filter.


2. Need probably another 10 gallons of volume to spray with this gun and a 3/8 hose so the line will recover quicker when I take my finger off the trigger.


By spraying one pass with my arm, then releasing trigger, and spraying the next pass, I can do that probably for a whole door panel before my volume drops to far for my gun to work improperly if I had good free flowing filtration and good volume.


I don't plan on ever spraying an entire car, but if I did, I would just add a second harbor freight compressor into the system and run them both to keep up with the gun.


More details to come, but I honestly know that my craters were due to contamination in the air line, not so much with poor gun performance.


Ian
I was toying with the notion of adding a second tank into the booth. The 11 gallon HF tank for $40 is what I was considering...

I was wondering if the additional tank after most of the filters would add a little more volume to help the gun keep up? But I am not sure if I have a volume problem either...

You say you had water and oil in the air, was that coming from the air lines or the bottom of the tank when you drained it?

I just replaced my 60 gal compressor with a new 60 gal compressor because it developed a pinhole leak and didn't want a timebomb in my garage.

I never had any detectible oil in my air from the old compressor, but when I drained the tank from full, the condensation at the bottom of the tank was oily... But I assume only a very small portion of that actually makes in into the lines, and some oil will always make it past the rings in the pump.

Even with the oily water in my tank, I didn't see any fisheye/craters in the finish when using the filters (I have the blue can filter from HF)
Industrial Air Filter Regulator


But if you are getting detectible oil in your lines, then you might be screwed... and your lines are probably not usable for painting anymore.

I was reading a thread yesterday where a fella painted his first car and it came out beautifully and then after several months to a year the paint started letting go. He later learned that the oil he had occasionally sprayed into his worn out compressor intake ports ruined the paint.

I can tell you for sure it doesn't take much contamination to ruin the paint. I was having problems with bad fisheye/craters over the entire painted surface a couple of weeks ago, this was with epoxy and SS paint. I then found a thread somewhere that said someone had the same issue and discovered that the big syringes he was using when mixing his paint had some very small amount of lubricant on the plungers. Well guess what I was using to get the paint out of the cans :pain:

As soon as I stopped using the syringes, no more fisheye. That was very little contamination in about 20 ounces of paint...
 
#12 ·
If you guys are willing to spend $200 bucks on a decent gun go to ebay and search for an Iwata W-400 with a 1.3 tip. 1.4 will do but puts down more materail. These are great guns and retail in the mid 400 range...I have been spraying with them for years

This HF gun is junk.

Much better guns out there for around $100-200
 

Attachments

#13 ·
I agree...there are better guns

However, if you are using a 'better gun' with the same filtration I was using, on a 1/4 100ft line with an undersized compressor, and a filter that is 90+% blocked with oil and water you are going to have problems no matter the gun.

So, I am fixing the air supply problem first, (using 1/2" line, instead of 1/4" and only 50 ft of it, and adding a 1/2 regulator/40 micron filter).

No way those marks on my paint came from the gun being bad, that is **** in the line reaching the gun and then being sprayed onto the paint. I can not imagine the gun 'causing' that problem unless there was contaminant in the gun, but I cleaned it about 7x before using it, so the gun itself was clean.

We'll see how it performs with the new line and new filter, then I'll pass judgment when I am at least using it as designed at around 35-40 psi which creates a 10psi amount of pressure at the tip. Just needed a way to flow WAY more air out of my storage tank, and have it reach the gun fast. I am crossing fingers that 1/2 inch with a 1/2 inch filter water/oil filter will solve my problem, if it doesn't and I get a different gun at least I'll have a better filtration setup to match the higher priced gun.
 
This post has been deleted
#14 ·
I will check out the gun that was posted and see if i can find one cheap. Was just going to buy the best i could get and be done with it. Who makes the best gun on th market for over all base coat paint job?

Sagola 4500 Xtreme is suppose to be top notch for atomizing the paint!
Autobody Store: Sagola 4500 Xtreme (Click Picture for Options)

Check the specials tab, there is usually one running on this gun.

Iwata W-400 with cup on ebay
Anest Iwata w 400 W400 132G 1 3mm Gravity Spray Gun with 600ml Cup Fast SHIP | eBay
 
This post has been deleted
#17 ·
Take it with a grain of salt, but on the other had I know a guy that builds custom fiberglass hotrods from scratch (with his own fiberglass molds) and does collision work on the side as well; he tells me that if I figure out what I am doing, I can spray just fine with the HF cheapies.

I also have a friend who's uncle builds high dollar show cars, one of which was an old Packard that he built that has gone in the $150K range in a couple of different auctions. He has informed my buddy that if he was only going to paint a few cars, the HF guns would be fine.


I keep seeing that many on the interwebs seem to think the devilbiss finishline 4 is about the least expensive gun that is worth messing with.

I am about to find out, as my buddy is bringing his new finishline4 to compare against my $60 HF gun this week....

I will report back with the results.
 
#25 ·
ok, lets get something straight, these HF guns re great for one or two jobs ,that's it /////You never know when it'll bite you in the butt. For instance ,my painter (brand new) was telling me how good these were as he was painting a car as he was telling me, the fluid knob fell out and rolled all the way down the hood leaving a serious track all the way down in the wet paint ...ok,it was pretty funny and the first three looked pretty good but the this one needed to be redone...sooner or later those cheap guns will let you down and cost you money so don't get all excited about them ,the tips wear out fast and you just never know when a major catasrafie will happen...if you get one decient job out of it you got lucky.
stick with the devilbis guns ,they're a bit better and can be used again and again without too much trouble...20.00 is cool for a paint gun but it'll cost you sooner or later, usually just when you get the hang of it. You don't need a 1,000.00 gun too do a good job ,a 150-200 gun is what you want and you don't have to throw it away after your done...but those 20.00 HF guns will get it done if one job is all you plan on doing.
 
#18 ·
Solved one problem

Well...hooked up the 1/2" line and the gun will run full-blast at the desired pressure set at the gun connection, even up to 45psi and I think with the 1/2 filter connected (also from harbor freight) I think I will be in far better condition to spray again.

Thanks for all the help everyone and we'll see what kind of results I get next time.
 
#20 ·
I am embarrassed to admit that I forgot to take pictures of the comparison of the Harbor Freight 68843 vs the Devilbiss Finishline 4 (FLG-670).

Just to make sure this is clear, this is not the cheaper HF purple gun, it is the $60 chrome HF gun.

I cannot take the pictures now because after the first 2 coats, we finished the whole hood with the Finishline gun.

We still has some orange peel to deal with, but it is the first time either of sprayed this type of paint.

I previously used the HF 68843 to spray some eastwood/kirker hot rod satin black urethane on a riding lawn mower (practice project #1), which is considered a "high solids" paint, and was thicker than single stage Kirker Urethane jet/gloss black we recently painted.

Previous experience with HF 68843:
With the satin black, the HF 68843 seemed to do OK, finish was a tad more textured that I would have liked, but I also didn't block the surface as well as I could have either. I had a couple of dirt spots (I assume it was dirt spots vs solvent pop or moisture issues) but I don't think it was the fault of the gun... And those spots were only present in curved/convex type areas where the air was swirling a little because of the the radius I was spraying around close to bends and/or 90degree angles. I can post some pics and edit when I can get the pics off the phone.

With the high solids satin, I had to add some reducer to that paint because it was striping really bad, and I had trouble keeping a wet edge. Even thinned, it still stripped, but when dry the striped appearance went away.


On to painting a car hood with the HF 68843 vs Finishline4:
This paint was the kirker single stage gloss black urethane.
All done at the same time (90 degrees and HUMID) swapping between the 68843 and the FLG4, same air supply; one side painted with HF gun, other side with the FLG4.

The finishline 4 laid the paint down in a much wider fan, and seemed to atomize more evenly and keep a wet edge much easier. I could not seem to adjust the HF gun to maintain a good wet edge. The middle of the HF pattern seemed much wetter than edges of the much smaller fan; even when overlapping by half or more, the edge seemed to kinda dry the middle wet portion of the previous pass.

We purposely laid the first coat thinner and a little drier, but the second coat was a wet coat. After the second second coat, the finish on the HF side was stripped... I attempted to correct this with more fluid and that didn't seem to help much.

So we ended up doing the whole third coat with the FLG4.

We ended up with a lot more dirt nibs in the paint than we had hopped for, but we were rushing the previous blocking session and didn't clean the floor well. The test was going to happen because this was the day my buddy came with the FLG4. We also had more orange peel than we had hopped for with both guns, but I believe further adjustment and/or reduction will clean that up to some degree.

I can tell you this, I am a cheap SOB, and I was thinking the difference would need to be quite vast if I was going to talk myself into buying the FLG4. But the difference was indeed enough that I went ahead and ordered myself an FLG4 last night.

I imagine that if I knew more about what I was doing and knew how to adjust the gun more properly and all the HF gun might have done much better. It really did OK on the satin black paint on the mower... I know people have laid down plenty of decent paintjobs with even the $10 HF purple guns, but with no experience and very little time twisting the knobs and such, the FLG4 was much easier to use, and had had a fan probably 3 times wider than the $60 HF 68843 gun.

Hope this information is useful to others...
 
#22 ·
Extremely helpful

Very cool and extremely helpful.
I am going to be repainting in a few weeks one of the panels were I had some contamination and might be doing some paint on my personal car wing mirrors.

When I do that I will again by using the HF chrome 60$ gun and I will have photo's and more experience.

I will say shooting the Nason 1k and 2k primer, sealer and clear products and the Standox base paint, I never had any trouble keeping a 'wet' line...the only reason I may have been able to do this is because I was WAY WAY under on my air pressure, so maybe that caused the larger droplets and that kept my line 'wet' because I was shooting way more paint than needed.

Either way, the photo's are here for people to make their own judgment. and yes, if you are painting even 3x a year, you should get a 400$ + gun.

I have a 395xp Husqvarna chainsaw with a 42" bar and alaskan mill and all the guide bars to cut flat lumber and it's because I mill tree's about 4x a year and I like doing it. If the same thing starts to happen with painting, I'll be buying the tools required to do a professional job. Probably the Devilbiss Copper.
 
#23 · (Edited)
It's the painter, not the gun... $35 HF "purple" gun (not the $15 one, which is total crap), with el cheapo Summit SS Urethane, 3 coats, not buffed... I don't use HF anymore because the high psi wastes too much paint... now have a $125 Warwick 904, which is a copy of the Iwata W400, I highly recommend the Warwick. Still use the Purple gun occasionally for epoxy primer, lays it down nice and flat.

Link>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8D9F6ngRuM
 
#33 ·
it falls on deaf ears. for 10 years the junk chearleaders have been on here. hf , mit painting , roll on you name it. this is why many of the professional shop owners left here.
if your car is only worth a 20 dollar gun and some cheap tractor paint so be it . just dont bore me with all the bs of how great it is .
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top