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Old 01-08-2008, 03:37 PM
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hybrid

Hey guys

OK i know i just kinda throw all kind of ideas around my head when i actually post. usually i lurk... but my newest idea is to hybrid my minx using an on board generator to power an electric motor.... it would be fairly quiet and get good mileage and be a neat conversation peace.... any way i thought i would say hi and see what you all thought of a hybrid
Alex
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:12 PM
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hybrid

heres something to bounce through your head
take a electric powered what ever ,shove it
into a car that will turn heads
add them shaker flash lights where your shocks are ,
dump the bulbs to charge car batteries .
then add solar power to your roof top with a directional to keep it
pointed at the sun .
then add a fan or two to turn a generator to charge batteries also .
stay on a bumpy ,wind blowing , sunny road .
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessJoe
Hey guys

OK i know i just kinda throw all kind of ideas around my head when i actually post. usually i lurk... but my newest idea is to hybrid my minx using an on board generator to power an electric motor.... it would be fairly quiet and get good mileage and be a neat conversation peace.... any way i thought i would say hi and see what you all thought of a hybrid
Alex
What you've described will work in theory, but as usual the reality of building it will be a problem. First, every time you convert from one form of energy to another, you take an efficiency loss. Going from liquid fuel (gas or diesel) has a loss of efficiency. Converting that rotary motion to electricity in a generator has another loss. Converting the electricity back into rotary motion with electric motors has another loss. Cars like the Prius have high efficiency motors and generators as well as regenerative braking that stores energy when you step on the brakes. All this hardware needs a sophisticated computer control system, not to mention the very large and expensive battery pack.

As a general rule, trying to replicate this system will either require you to spend the equivalent of Toyota's engineering budget or else you'll end up with a stone that gets worse gas mileage than just using a small diesel directly driving the wheels.

Now, having said that, there IS a potential benefit to what you described. Internal combustion engines can be made to run very efficiently over a small RPM range by tuning the intake, exhaust, cam, etc. One example is when you're cruising at a constant speed on the freeway. The problem with most cars is that the engine is required to be flexible and operate over a very wide RPM range, accelerating from a stop, passing cars, etc. By using a small IC engine operating at a fixed RPM to drive a generator, you can make it run very efficiently and use the batteries to give you the flexibility. The problem is that the weight of the battery pack with today's technology hurts efficiency more than you gain with the constant RPM engine.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:45 PM
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hybrid

what about the air car being built in Mexico
$15 grand for a ride that go's 250 miles on full air tank .
lot of tacos and bean burrito's
wonder if they will call it a pooter
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:18 AM
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ya it will take a bit of planning...
a guy in 78-9ish did i with an opel gt here: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alter...ectic-Car.aspx
Also theres a guy i know who is half-way done converting a 4x4 luv
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NamelessJoe
Also theres a guy i know who is half-way done converting a 4x4 luv
That's the problem. There are lots of projects that are half-way done...
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
That's the problem. There are lots of projects that are half-way done...
i agree he has the electric half done and can drive it around for about 10 min or so now he's going todo the genorater half in the spring....

but as far as energy loss during converting from luqid to mechanical to eletric back to mechanical i hope to use batteries(so chemical energy i supose) as a resevore of elecric energy and use a little properly tuned IC engine for economy
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:54 AM
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joe_padavano's comments are spot on.

You have to take the system as a whole. Yes you'll lose energy due to the conversions. OTOH, you'll gain overall efficiency if the gas (or perhaps diesel) engine is operating at a relatively fixed power band. Batteries weigh a lot, which will decrease the efficiency.

Another thing to consider is the type of driving you'll do. Gas engines are least efficient and pollute most during idling and heavy acceleration. The more you hit the gas hard, and sit in traffic, the better a hybrid will perform in comparison.

In your favor, small engines to power a generator tend to weigh less, and many have lots of aluminum. That would help. Electric motors, on the other hand, tend not to be built lightweight but instead are built for longevity.

What did you plan on using for a generator?

I've played around with the idea of a hybrid in my head for years. IMHO, if you're looking for great mileage, you probably aren't going to be able to approach anything available from the major vehicle manufacturers.

However, I think a different approach might be worth pursuing. Gas engines deliver their maximum torque at high RPMs. Electric motors deliver their max torque from 0 rpm all the way through their rated RPM. This translates into the potential for incredible acceleration.

I'd try and build a performance hybrid. Size the generator to be able to provide enough energy to push the vehicle along at freeway speeds with a little reserve. Size the batteries to deliver bursts of acceleration. When you accelerate, you'd drain the batteries, during normal driving the excess power provided by the generator would recharge them. Depending on the power levels, you might even have to look into some sort of AWD system to get enough rubber contacting the road to deal with the torque, but it sure would be a fun ride, although a somewhat expensive one. Probably would get decent overall mileage. On short trips, you might be able to get by on batteries alone and recharge them at home.

A side benefit would be the ability to somewhat easily change primary fuels. If the onboard engine is strictly running a generator at a constant RPM, then you have the ability to replace that engine without dealing with drivetrain issues. Could then convert to diesel, or LNG, or alchohol with less fuss.

Also, decoupling the drivetrain into several pieces allows you to use the excess weight to your advantage. Mount the batteries and generator as low as possible to get your center of gravity down and distribute through the chassis to maximize traction.

Just some ideas to think about. Building a hybrid makes one somewhat of a pioneer. You can Google plenty of info regarding homebuilt EVs, and that will get you access to a lot of experience regarding what works and what doesn't, but the hybrid part just hasn't been done as much.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:23 AM
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thanks for the input
i don't have the budget for an outright purchase so i'm shopping around and picking up what ever i can get my hands on when i can afford it...
as far as generators go i would hope for diesel but again if i can get a gas one for half the price that fits in the car and is powerful enough then ill go for that one... hopefully i can trade enough time for what i cant afford
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