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Old 03-06-2006, 08:08 PM
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Hydraulic Flat or Roller??? Chevy 383 Street engine?

I am looking for a cam for my engine and cant decide between a flat tappet and roller. I dont really have the budget for a rolller but im sure i could save a little and buy one. Would i notice a difference on the street with a roller compaired to a flat tappet?? I dont plan to rev over like 6 grand. Would there even be apoint of me spendind like 700 compared to like 250???

Also i was looking at getting the comp cam with something around 230@ 050 in fllat but i c the rollers are like 225 @ 050 and have like the same lift around 500. Should i get a cam around 230 if i get a roller?

Engine specs:
10:1 cp
Eagle 383 kit
KB -7cc forged pistons
RPM air gapintake
dart iron eagle 215 cc heads
holley 670cfm carb

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Old 03-06-2006, 08:14 PM
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I dont believe you need a solid roller, a hdy roller would free up some power, and be very reliable.... not cheap, but money well spnt imho...


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Old 03-06-2006, 08:37 PM
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Mechanical or solid cams are too much work adjusting for street use. I am goin to buy a hydraulic cam no matter what.

Heres the prices i got from summit

Comp Cam Hyd. Flat
Cam : 100-120
Lifters: 65-85
Total : 165 - 205

Comp Cam Hyd. Roller
Cam : 245
Lifter: 430-450
total : 675- 695

The difference is around $500 just wondering if it is really worth it as for gains and to only rev to 6000?? But i c that almost all cars from the late 80s and on r rollers so i think im goin to bite the bullet.
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Old 03-06-2006, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89SDime
Mechanical or solid cams are too much work adjusting for street use. I am goin to buy a hydraulic cam no matter what.

Heres the prices i got from summit

Comp Cam Hyd. Flat
Cam : 100-120
Lifters: 65-85
Total : 165 - 205

Comp Cam Hyd. Roller
Cam : 245
Lifter: 430-450
total : 675- 695

The difference is around $500 just wondering if it is really worth it as for gains and to only rev to 6000?? But i c that almost all cars from the late 80s and on r rollers so i think im goin to bite the bullet.

Too much work?! Takes me about 30min to adjust my solid roller "street" engine. If your having to adjust all the time something is wearing out or breaking. But im a gear head I love to wrench on my cars. I switched from flat tappet to solid roller and theres a remarkable difference in power and it revs very quick. Whether you go solid or hyd, roller is the only way to go. IMO.
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89SDime
Mechanical or solid cams are too much work adjusting for street use. I am goin to buy a hydraulic cam no matter what.

Heres the prices i got from summit

Comp Cam Hyd. Flat
Cam : 100-120
Lifters: 65-85
Total : 165 - 205

Comp Cam Hyd. Roller
Cam : 245
Lifter: 430-450
total : 675- 695

The difference is around $500 just wondering if it is really worth it as for gains and to only rev to 6000?? But i c that almost all cars from the late 80s and on r rollers so i think im goin to bite the bullet.
The gains on a hydraulic roller are through out the operating range YOU CHOOSE by the grind you choose. The cam grinders can grind a cam with much more agressive ramps, opening the valves fully, earlier than possible with a flat tappet cam. If you get a power curve and torque curve for the roller, it will be much flatter so you will have useable power at lower RPM.
Spend the money if you have it to spend.
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Old 03-07-2006, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89SDime
............
The difference is around $500 just wondering if it is really worth it as for gains and to only rev to 6000?? But i c that almost all cars from the late 80s and on r rollers so i think im goin to bite the bullet.
What's the duration on those cams?

Vizard has done some testing recently that shows unless you exceed about 270* duration, the flat tappet will outperform the roller in similar spec'd cams.
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Old 03-07-2006, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstngjoe
What's the duration on those cams?

Vizard has done some testing recently that shows unless you exceed about 270* duration, the flat tappet will outperform the roller in similar spec'd cams.
What's the real story? Any quotes or links? Test results? Maybe it's just a rumor.
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Old 03-07-2006, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onovakind67
What's the real story? Any quotes or links? Test results? Maybe it's just a rumor.
Popular Hot Rodding, September '05. A couple of scans from the article.

(For a larger clear image, hold your cursor over the page until a small square icon appears in the lower right hand corner. Click it.)

http://www.fordmuscle.com/pictures/p...oe_Vizard1.jpg

http://www.fordmuscle.com/pictures/p...oe_Vizard2.jpg
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:53 AM
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It's interesting how people come to conclusions. Vizard choses to compare cams of similar advertised duration while I would be comparing cams with similar 0.050" lift durations. Here's one of his examples:

Lobe # 3313 - HR, 269 adv, 218 @ .05", 139 @ .2", .330" lobe lift, .058" @ TDC
Lobe # 5444 - HFT, 270 adv, 226 @ .05", 139 @ .2", .321" lobe lift, .073" @ TDC

Pick a HFT lobe with similar .05" duration, like this:

Lobe # 5442 - HFT, 262 adv, 218 @ .05", 130 @ .2", .308" lobe lift, .06" @ TDC

I would tend to believe that the 3313 lobe would be more effective than the 5442 lobe of similar .05" lift duration.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:08 AM
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With the vast amount of knowledge, experience and resources that Vizard has, when he talks I tend to listen and learn.

If you don't believe his testing or conclusions are valid or relevant, so be it.

Maybe you have some "....quotes or links? Test results?" that show something other than Vizards'.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:08 AM
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I'd gladly give up a few thousandths lift for the usefulness of a roller cam. Vizard proves his point all the time but not with blinders on. He touts things like this but he doesn't tell you that both cams are ground with a lash take up on solid stuff and the flexing or longer pushrods affecting lift or the fact that most heads don't flow at those small lift's very well.

A roller whether tight lashed solid or hyd. will always produce more lift in the most usable lift zone. The decrease in cam wear, friction, ease or operation make he theory a blind one IMO. If money isn't an issue, everyone would be happier with roller.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:10 AM
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I can only speak for myself....money is always an issue.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:37 AM
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I've always respected Vizzard's books because there is nearly always useful information.
That said, the WHOLE POINT of using a roller cam is because the ramp profile can be changed so that it achieves total lift quicker and higher than possible with a flat tappet cam. To state that roller lifters don't help at lower lifts and shorter durations is true because that is exactly the point of using a roller, higher lift and longer durations with less frictional loss.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstngjoe
With the vast amount of knowledge, experience and resources that Vizard has, when he talks I tend to listen and learn.

If you don't believe his testing or conclusions are valid or relevant, so be it.

Maybe you have some "....quotes or links? Test results?" that show something other than Vizards'.
I used the same methods that he used, just picked some lobes from a catalog and laid the numbers out. No dyno testing, just numbers.

From a personal experience standpoint, swapping the short block of a 385" SBC with a E110421 296 Erson hydraulic flat tappet to a 406" SBC with a 12-430-8 280 Comp hydraulic roller gained me 4 tenths and 5 mph in the quarter mile. I'm sure 21 extra cubes helped out, but not 5 mph worth.

Here's an interesting article on a 'flat to roll' cam change:

http://www.idavette.net/hib/camcon.htm
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:48 AM
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I am currently setting up my 396 for solid roller. The hardcore drag guys buy a new set of lifters every year. I got my used lifters off of e-bay that came out of a super-gas car with 250 passes for less that $100....the only thing you have to make sure of is whoever you get them from was running enough spring to keep from flat spotting the wheels due to bounce. I also picked up a brand new never installed solid roller cam for $175 which is about a $350.00 cam. You might say I'm crazy but the guy thats doing the engine said that I didn't make a bad decision, but then again it isn't a street engine, but a mudbogger that will see 3 or 4 runs a weekend max. Saved mega$$$$$$$$
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