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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 03:18 PM
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Nice man!
I was looking into this small wind turbine since the area I live in won't allow me to do much more than this:Small wind turbine

Pic's of the three vehicles I talked about:








Fun!

~Scott

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 04:10 PM
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Ok, so it won't work. But...................

What is this guy adding to water to make his mower run?
hydrogen mower.


And this dune buggy hauls ###, supposedly on only water.
hydrogen dune buggy.


Mark
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmark
Ok, so it won't work. But...................

What is this guy adding to water to make his mower run?
hydrogen mower.


And this dune buggy hauls ###, supposedly on only water.
hydrogen dune buggy.


Mark

Shhh its a secret...potassium hydroxide and electricity. Once the potassium dissolves in the water you can't see it. Guess I am targeted for death now!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 05:44 PM
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Wait wait wait everyone browns gas is will work you just can't make it work from water alone. So you have to use water and something else or some other chemical and then get browns gas from it and then when it burns it turns into water.

Hrmmmmm sounds an awful lot like when you add something else to the water or use another chemical that is easier to dissociate the hyrdogen you are just using another type of fuel? One that possibly needs to be mined, sythesised or pumped from the earth?

Ok thats a fail


However there is one thing we all can take out of this post.

The bar chart curtis posted.

I don't think "green solutions" are going to solve our problems anytime soon. However if we could find a way to use that lost heat/sound/light to create energy we can up the efficancy of current automobile engines ALOT.

This is kinda like the idea of a turbo charger? Use exhaust velocity that is normally wasted to make more power.

About two months ago I read in the news they had a breakthrough in materials that allows them to generate electricity with this semiconductin substance efficantly enough from the heat of exhaust. They are developing it more and looking at generating power from it rather than using an alternater. I dunno what will ever come of it but it looks like a good start.



I was also reading someone posting about metallic cermaic engine blocks.

Funny thing I had an instructor tell me about this in a materials class. Apparently they been trying to make a ceramic compound for years that would work in an engine block so you could run the engine hotter and get more efficiancy. Also they thought you could put a glass like polish on surfaces and run very low frictional losses. Big problem though. Ceramics have theoretically very high tesnile strengths however they have virtually no TOUGHNESS. So this means in a test or in the real world when you go to stretch or bend a ceramic it shatters. If you could do it slow enough (we are talking like slower than 1mm a year) you would find ceramics are very strong.

This is why ceramics make such great ballistics plates very strong in reality but low toughness. So when a bullet hits it it doesn't go through it and the low toughness causes the ceramic to shatter and dissapate the energy of the bullet.

Suddenly doesn't sound so good for an engine unless you can make something radical.


For all these backyard scientists who claim to make this system or that system there are thousands of government employees developing things in top secret labs and that doesn't even account for what the companies are developing. So unless someone has better luck by far then what it would take to win the lottery I have a hard time believing anyone in their back yard will create something that will turn a regular motor into a green machine.

Dow chemicals or the military woulda done that by now. Unless you are going to tell me dow chemicals would be too afraid from all the other big companies to make a profit off something.

Or that the military wouldn't want reliable tanks that could run very efficantly.

The answer is out there and its not going to be found in someones back yard or on the internet in a hotrodding forum. Its going to be found in a lab with more funding than you could ever imagine having. Except for those few very very few cases of pure genius combined with the 1:10000000000000000000 chance of dumb luck.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:34 PM
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BTW guys, just so you know...the only reason why hydrogen fuel is even talked about these days is because we can generate enough cheaply and quickly using good old electricity.

How do we generate enough electricity to create this hydrogen? Its really simple and right in front of your nose.

Nuclear power.

Its the only way to do it and get off gasoline, mark my words...you will see huge generating plants in the next few 20 years. We really have no choice.

If your out of a job and looking for work, its the next big industry.

Remember you heard it here first.

Now all we need is a ceramic disposable engine that lasts 100K miles and we are set. Maybe small turbines will make an entrance into automobiles again, they could power a small genset and convert that hydrogen back to electricity with a much higher efficiency than a piston engine.

Hmmm...

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 10:32 PM
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Don't let all the flat earth thinkers discourage you. Just read up on the subject of hydrogen and raising your fuel mileage. They are correct about your engine using more browns gas than you can convert on board to run with out gasoline. There was a man by the name of Stan Meyer who did this on a dune buggy, but he started it out on gas and switched over to Browns gas to keep it up to speed. He came up with a pulse generator that used resonance as well as electricity to generate his Browns gas and that doubled the output. His dune buggy, equipment, computers, and information is for sale. Here is the link http://www.blogtalkradio.com/WaterFu...buggy-for-sale. Do a google search of Stan Meyer, there is a lot of info on him.
I built a system in the early 1990's that would double the mileage on a vehicle with out a computer( it is the computer that dumps more liquid gasoline into the engine when it sees more O2 from the more complete combustion of the fuel and there are ways, to a point, to get around this)but no one wanted to pay big money for better mileage when gas was around $1.25 A gallon so I lost interest in it. I pulled the system off the truck I had it on and it sits on my shelf in the garage. Some day I will play with it again.
Also look up www.eagle-research.com and look up Hyzor. here is another one..http://www.mpgresearch.com/forum/
I tried to post pictures of my unit but I could not figure how to add pictures.
Just watch the nasty responce the nay sayers will reply to this post.
Dale
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 10:38 PM
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I think if we started an engine off gasoline or propane then switch it to water or water assist; it'd be injected at very high pressure right before TDC like a diesel engine.... the high pressure it'd disperse the water as basically a vapor, and then seperate into H and o2. With a a spark and maybe a little other fuel (say, from a carb) it might work, and likely would be used less than gasoline due to moisture, and you still need a lot of heat to seperate the water into its basic elements. I dunno. Maybe it'll work. I like the idea of biodiesel from waste veggie oil, as it's a waste product anyway, and not a 'virgin' food product (or could be if the land was used for more edible varieties of corn) like ethanol is.

although... they have ways to make ethanol from garbage. Doing this, I'd be much more supportive of e85 and such as it is a win win... less trash in the landfill, and more fuel for our muscle, daily drivers, or even the lowly briggs and stratton.

Screw big oil, but screw socialism more.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmark
Ok, so it won't work. But...................

What is this guy adding to water to make his mower run?
hydrogen mower.


And this dune buggy hauls ###, supposedly on only water.
hydrogen dune buggy.


Mark
the dune buggy was exposed as a fake about 15 minutes after the story ran. The station apologized and took it back. There was also a rumor that the guy who invented it was contacted by the military to buy his design and then he was shot by a sniper. Please.

The lawnmower could be anything - ethanol, white gas, coleman fuel... who knows. YouTube is constantly flooded with stuff like that. Its also possible that it can work with a backup capacity battery, but once the battery runs out, it will quit.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
Shhh its a secret...potassium hydroxide and electricity. Once the potassium dissolves in the water you can't see it. Guess I am targeted for death now!
This is a common misconception. The dissolved electrolyte has nothing to do with catalyzing the hydrolysis. There are no known catalysts for separating water.

Pure water is an insulator; it won't conduct electricity. No conductivity = no hydrolysis. You have to dissolve something in it to make it conduct electricity. Any ionic-bond substance will work once dissolved in water. It doesn't affect the amount of amperage required to split the water, it simply makes it possible for the reaction to work.
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Old 11-19-2008, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevyThunder
Wait wait wait everyone browns gas is will work you just can't make it work from water alone. So you have to use water and something else or some other chemical and then get browns gas from it and then when it burns it turns into water.
Wait again.. Browns gas (which is also called HHO) is a complete advertising patented gimmick. HHO is nothing more than what some crackpot inventor patented to label the mixture of O2 and H2 that results from hydrolyzing water. If you stick a + and - DC current wire in a glass of tap water and collect the gas that comes off, that is "browns gas" or HHO. Nothing special about it.

Quote:
I don't think "green solutions" are going to solve our problems anytime soon. However if we could find a way to use that lost heat/sound/light to create energy we can up the efficancy of current automobile engines ALOT.

This is kinda like the idea of a turbo charger? Use exhaust velocity that is normally wasted to make more power.
Exactly. Using the otherwise wasted heat energy in the exhuast to power a turbine is great. Its not perfect, since it does introduce backpressure to the piston motion, but it is a way to retrieve lost energy.

The main thing that needs to be addressed is heat. In a gasoline engine that is 25% efficient, 75% of the energy gets lost. Of that 75%, nearly all is heat. The main thing we need to recapture is heat. The problem is, its one of the toughest to manage. Higher compression engines typically release more BTUs from the fuel, but that doesn't change the heat management. Piston and chamber coatings can effectively reflect more heat back into the combustion event, but the fact remains that there is still a BUTTLOAD of heat that is unused that slips out the exhaust.

There was an article about a design that used a water reservoir, a high pressure radiator cap, and an open-air chamber of the cooling system. The system used a pump to sample some of the hot coolant, routed it to the chamber where it boiled. The steam pressure was then available for use and the backup reservoir could add water as needed to compensate for what boiled off.

It was a very complicated system so I'm not sure its ready for prime time.

Quote:
About two months ago I read in the news they had a breakthrough in materials that allows them to generate electricity with this semiconductin substance efficantly enough from the heat of exhaust. They are developing it more and looking at generating power from it rather than using an alternater. I dunno what will ever come of it but it looks like a good start.
I read a blurb about that in Diesel Power magazine. Neat stuff.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UR50SLO
Nice man!
I was looking into this small wind turbine since the area I live in won't allow me to do much more than this:Small wind turbine
Super neat. Very attractive. It almost looks like an artistic sculpture.

There is a guy who is working on a new idea. Since the highest winds are way up high, and normal turbines are limited by tower height, he had the idea to float a balloon turbine with the tether being the conductor. Its like a helium balloon that spins and the string is a conductor.


http://www.magenn.com/about.php
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis73
This is a common misconception. The dissolved electrolyte has nothing to do with catalyzing the hydrolysis. There are no known catalysts for separating water.

Pure water is an insulator; it won't conduct electricity. No conductivity = no hydrolysis. You have to dissolve something in it to make it conduct electricity. Any ionic-bond substance will work once dissolved in water. It doesn't affect the amount of amperage required to split the water, it simply makes it possible for the reaction to work.

Uhuh...






Elementary method to produce "Brown's Gas" or HHO mixture using a 12VDC battery

This is how all these supposed "inventors" have been creating their "miracle hydrogen generators".

History of "Brown's Gas" or HHO and the first hydrogen car built in 1860

BTW Pure water is impossible to produce, it is a theoretical substance. Even the purest water being made today conducts electricity, although poorly.

Thats how they check how pure it is.

Also...there is no such thing as a non-conductor, pure vacuum, pure water or pure virgins. It's a statistical impossibility.

Question: What's the resistivity of "Pure Water"
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
Also...there is no such thing as a non-conductor, pure vacuum, pure water or pure virgins. It's a statistical impossibility.
Agreed, but if you dump distilled water from a jug into a beaker and try to hydrolyze it, its not gonna happen. The addition of the ionic solute is what makes it an electrolyte.

And I had a pure virgin once... or at least she said she was. If I were as gullible as someone who believes in a purely water-powered engine, I might have believed her.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:12 PM
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[IMG]dads 016[/IMG] [IMG]dads 017[/IMG] [IMG]dads 018[/IMG] I hope these pictures of my cold gasoline vaporizer come threw.You can use 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda in 1 QT of distilled water and adjust as needed for you catalyst.This will be safer than using a caustic chemical.
As for nothing good coming out of someones "back yard" that is where the autmotive industry got its start. A lot of good things came from a back yard.
The pure HHO does tend to rust and corrode the engine parts but using it as enhancment does not. It will act like a primer in a shotgun shell a small hot charge gets the rest of the powder to burn. the HHO does the same by making the fuel burn hotter with the lighter fuel to ignite first. A diesel with prechambers do the same.
Dale
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008, 12:04 AM
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I am aware of what browns gas is.

They do the exact same thing on a nuclear submarine to make oxygen they just add current to the salt water.

The point I was trying to get across is whenever you burn something with hyrdogen in it (like a hydrocarbon or pure hyrogen) you always get water as a byproduct. So yeah you could find a way to dissociate hydrogen and oxygen from some other substance (and some impurities too) but isn't that just going back to finding a different fuel and no longer running on water?


Hey 4 Jaw they are discussing building a nuke facility near peace river here in alberta since its too late for Ft Mac. The idea is to use the steam after power generation to extract oil from the oil sands. I think its a little too late in alberta for this to be fully effective but saskatchewan.

Bruce power is putting in all the effort in so if something looks like its giong through I'm buying stocks in bruce. The amount of government subsidies nuke power gets and then the cheap cost of running it when its up means a guy could make a wise investment.

Now we just gotta keep that anti nuke activist from austrialia from coming back tot his country as she already did this year.
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