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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
To tear apart a engine , get a cam , heads is more expensive. A roots 144 is under $1000. You can easily double the output of a stock 290hp long block.

A good piston , cam, head combo cannot take that pepsi challenge.
144 new are 2 grand.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2013, 11:46 AM
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Yup they are.. and I would use a bigger blower than a 142 for 500+hp.
If you want 550hp you don't want to start with a 450+/-hp blower.

for 550hp+ use a 6-71 or a 177. A lot more fun than a turbo.

Yes you can use a 6-71 with a cast 350 crank and pistons. (get the crank cut for a double keyway, for grins, for a 6-71)

But not a cast 383 crank..

build a 355 for a 6-71

A 142 is a waste of time on a 383
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2013, 01:29 PM
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Fbird makes a good point about , what you could , and what you should do.

You should look around on the trade and auction listings online. My first BM 144 was $850 in last july. A complete kit. I replaced all the bearings, retimed the impellers, gaskets seals, oil, etc still not over 1000. Took me a weekend. Nothing wrong with used gear.

If you look around you can probably find a few roots type for your application under 1000 in your location. Not everybody is passing around junk.
It depends what your doing too.

My e force has over 10k miles since july, and in a daily vehicle it has beeen terrific. If you have the means and hood clearance they are not beatable in a dollar for dollar comparision. It is that good.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
A lot more fun than a turbo.
I don't know how you can make that statement, unless you like the look of a blower sticking through the hood or the whine, a lot o fpeople do like that and I can see those being valid points.

Then again a lot of people also like the sound of a turbo so if anything the "fun factor" comes to preferences. I will say some of the newer designed superchargers are pretty damn incredible compared to the older stuff- and of course the same can be said for turbos.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2013, 04:35 PM
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Some of the turbo experts prefer hypers for street turbo applications. I've always run forged, but don't think you'll have trouble if you gap the rings. I haven't done any research but you may have trouble getting the compression down with the longer stroke. I've tuned centrifugal supercharged and own turbo stuff. Both are a blast to drive. My only experience with a 144 wasn't impressive but it was a heavy car.

Kevin
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2013, 06:15 PM
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My last turbo from garrett was under 300 bucks reman from them. It was good for 600 hp but you can get a single that will support v8 easily in the 700+ hp range.

Hyper pistons are stronger than cast stock ones and ppl put crazy boost on the stock ones before they blow from striaght hp/load. Yes they break but will do ok with the boost your looking for and cr.

Sc are good for oems but turbos are so much more fun when on a v8. Almost no lag and more hp than sc. Take between 25 and 100 hp tp turn a supercharger. Turbos turn on waste heat yeah you give up a little from back pressure but its not like the drag of the sc. Try to turn one by hand and you will see what i mean.

Also intercoolers and plumbing will be alot cheaper and better than sc aftercooler system.

Good heads and good intercooler you should be able to cover a lot more than 7 psi. Get it setup right it should take 14.7 psi. With proper timing control. And that actually has a chance to double the hp level of the engine. Since it will be another atmosphere. 9:1 cr is more fun with low boost but in the 8:1 range a little more blow may be needed to really wake it up. Just take it slow and make sure it never knocks. And if it does have a saftey system to catch it before it breaks a piston.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:26 AM
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My experience has been with both Hyper and forged. The difference for me comes down to the price - maybe $200 to $300 extra for the forged.
The engine I'm currently building for my C-10 I decided for peace of mind and the ability to get crazy with HP levels if I want, I bought forged Icon pistons, a forged Eagle crank and forged scat rods. Each piece was a decision based upon cost. I had the whole setup blue printed and balanced so the package got pretty expensive for me.
It comes down to piece of mind.
I recall a friend with a new Chevy truck that put a Vortech on it at supposedially around 7 PSI and promptly had to tear it down to replace a piston or two.
The mixture has to be just right, the operating temperature has to be right. If you play on the ragged edge with no margin for a mistake, oversight or mechanical malfunction you may pay the price.
I'm just tired of worrying about that stuff so I build in plenty of safety margin for the turbo I will add next winter.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:55 AM
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Do you think the pistons were do to the 7 psi? or was it a racing vehicle shifting over 5-6k rpm. Something wasnt right.

I am running 9:1 at 9+ psi since July . My c10 is limited to shifting at about 5200rpm. This is on stock pistons. It is a 85 tuned with a gas analyzer. Since my shifts are low I can run a 650 AVs carb with msd btm. It works.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
I'm not sure why you think a roots blower is the cheaepst route, or why Fbird think that they're more fun. There are a LOT of ways to make good power, some cheaper and some more costly.

Nothing wrong with a roots blower but is far from the only show on the block.
your right, but comparing a turbo or centrifical car to a positive displacement blower driven car, the boost comes on at a very low RPM, and it's more "fun" for a daily driver.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:13 PM
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Does this look like it would be hard to install? It is most certainly cake.



Did you ever work at a muffler shop? Turbo system requires some fabriction time. Artisticly speaking it is more pleasing.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dundonrl View Post
your right, but comparing a turbo or centrifical car to a positive displacement blower driven car, the boost comes on at a very low RPM, and it's more "fun" for a daily driver.
most turbo v8's with good compression and cam hardly have any lag. I mean before your foot touches carpet you got boost. My little honda civic will smoke the tires from a dead stop without reving the engine. as soon as the turbo gets a load its making boost. Older cars had lag issues from very low compression engines. With a 300 v8 and a turbo to push it above the 500 mark you will still get the 300 hp and all the idle and off idle power you had before the turbo. The same is not really true for the superchanger. the supercharger kills all your low end power so you get less to begin with and less over all. now the low end is working good by 1500 rpm but so are properly sized turbos. But with SC there is a big fat section in the middle where most cars live that is great. I feel you are both right.

Still comes down to tuning.

As far as welding goes yes there will be some. But you can buy a buzz box wire feed type welder for around 100 bucks and it works fine for exhuast pipe. It may not be pretty but it will work just fine. Paint and a little grinding will polish it right up. intercooler and piping kits are so cheap off ebay i would not try to make my own charge piping. just buy the kit with a lot of J bends and go to work.

Yes it is easier to install a fully setup supercharger kit that is bolt on ready for your car. But these kits cost 5 grand for most cars. Yeah there are some deals but when your talking bolt on your talking about twice if not 3 times the cash. A used supercharger off ebay is just as far away from being on the car as a turbo from a junk yard for 50 bucks. Cost is more with a supercharger if your doing all the work yourself the turbo can be as little as a few hundred bucks and your on the road. If you are super smart you will still have to lay out 900 for a used sc and make it work. so I think turbos are cheaper for diy boost.

FYI: Remote mount turbos have less than a second more lag than a header mounted system and are pretty easy to setup. I know no one beleives this until they actually drive a car with remote mounts setup right. But may help keep things in budget. If it matters for your build.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:15 PM
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What, are you ralking about?


If you had a engine with a turbo in lplace bleed out all boost , and still making 300hp. YOur staematment is still wrong.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:26 PM
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I just tore my 383 down on monday.


KB Hypers after a little detonation





One on each bank







I will never run them again for any reason. If I dont have the extra money for forged then it will sit until I have the extra money for forged. I do have the money so I bought probe pistons and am about to take everything to the machine shop this weekend.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by spinn View Post
Does this look like it would be hard to install? It is most certainly cake.



Did you ever work at a muffler shop? Turbo system requires some fabriction time. Artisticly speaking it is more pleasing.


That is the same magnuson mp122 I installed on our 63 nova last winter. The newer edelbrock version sucks because they decided to make it in house and started pressing the upper pulley on so it can not be changed to increase boost.

Was a piece of cake to install. Along with it I installed a hydraulic roller blower cam, new pro-filer heads and the new msd 6AL2 programmable ignition box and a map sensor to custom tune the timing.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:34 PM
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Prostreet that happened on your daily driver driving around? or in 1:1 winding down the end quarter?
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