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Old 06-25-2010, 03:33 PM
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I could use a diagnosis

So, I stumbled upon this forum looking for answers to some questions about painting my car. Let me give you a brief background on what has happened.
I am repainting a 92 Mercedes (Yes, I know it isn’t a hot rod, but it’s a solid daily driver and I am holding onto it for at least another 3 to 5 years. Under the advice of my dad, he told me go around and get quotes to paint it – all of them came out to about 800 bucks. My dad proceeded to decide that maybe we should paint it together as a project. I was totally onboard with this, as he has painted a few cars in his life. I figured, what could possibly go wrong.

To start with, the hood and roof of my car were going to crap. The clear coat was coming entirely off, the paint was fading – it was a mess. I started out by using an orbital sander, and sanding the entire body with 60, 80 and 120 grit. In most cases, I did not get down to the bare metal – just through the clear coat and most of the primer.

I next shot the car with automotive primer. This was done in two stages. The first stage was shot with Rustoleum automotive primer, the second was with Dupli Color’s automotive primer. The car was covered entirely, sanded, and wet sanded to a fine feel. We next proceeded to shoot 3 layers of “Jet Black” Duplicolor lacquer based paint. The car was fine wet sanded between coats. After the fourth coat, we shot the same brand’s metallic clear coat – just one coat (this was mostly just because that’s all the clear coat the store had at the time. The car looked fine – BUT the directions on the can said to buff it with 1500 grit rubbing compound then wax the car.

This is where I disagreed with my dad. I personally have had bad experiences with rubbing compound, and as such, I did not want to bother with it. But, we both agreed to follow the cans directions. After buffing the car, we let it dry over night. The next day I came out, and there were white splotches all over the car, particularly in some of the trouble spots that were there to begin with on the original paint.

Now, here are my questions. First, how screwed am I? Am I going to have to sand back down the metal on the roof and hood of the car and use some sort of rust inhibitor or something? Are these white blemishes due to the fact that we only shot ONE layer of clear coat? Will shooting more clear coat resolve a lot of these white spots? Has anyone else ever had this happen to them? Can I shoot any clear coat (enamel, acrylic, urethane) over lacquer to get a deeper shine?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also, if you are in the Tampa area and totally bored and want to come out to yell and tell me where we went wrong, that would not only be hilarious, but pretty cool.
Thanks again! I can take pictures if need be.
Charles

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2010, 07:51 PM
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This is too stupid to be real, right?

You used furniture paint on a Mercedes?
Why not just use it for target practice and then take it to scrap yard.

Anyways, if this is not a BS post, here is the deal that happened or what you made up.

The white spots in the clear is where you buffed to hot and melted the crap color and the color re-flowed and the solvent broke adhesion to the clear.
It will get worse and there is no saving it.

Now you can pay a $1000 to have the car stripped and then start over.
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:21 PM
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"The white spots in the clear is where you buffed to hot and melted the crap color and the color re-flowed and the solvent broke adhesion to the clear.
It will get worse and there is no saving it."

Correct but all is not lost. It WILL be fun to put it out in direct sunlight to watch it pop and sizzle like bacon, then take it to get stripped.

Consider it tuition, just because you can do something does not mean you should do it.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
This is too stupid to be real, right?

You used furniture paint on a Mercedes?
Why not just use it for target practice and then take it to scrap yard.

Anyways, if this is not a BS post, here is the deal that happened or what you made up.

The white spots in the clear is where you buffed to hot and melted the crap color and the color re-flowed and the solvent broke adhesion to the clear.
It will get worse and there is no saving it.

Now you can pay a $1000 to have the car stripped and then start over.
Barry -

It's just a benz - a 1200 dollar one at that - no different in price or shape than the last 4 I have owned in the last 12 years. Ended up using rubbing compound again on it the roof, that took care of it. Thanks for the input though
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldBodyman
"The white spots in the clear is where you buffed to hot and melted the crap color and the color re-flowed and the solvent broke adhesion to the clear.
It will get worse and there is no saving it."

Correct but all is not lost. It WILL be fun to put it out in direct sunlight to watch it pop and sizzle like bacon, then take it to get stripped.

Consider it tuition, just because you can do something does not mean you should do it.
Pretty sure I fixed it, but can I actually throw bacon on it instead of watching it sizzle like bacon?
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
This is too stupid to be real, right?

You used furniture paint on a Mercedes?
Why not just use it for target practice and then take it to scrap yard.

Anyways, if this is not a BS post, here is the deal that happened or what you made up.

The white spots in the clear is where you buffed to hot and melted the crap color and the color re-flowed and the solvent broke adhesion to the clear.
It will get worse and there is no saving it.

Now you can pay a $1000 to have the car stripped and then start over.
Also, if I have to strip it, ill just shoot rustoleum on it - kind of get the picture on what kind of car this is?
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:34 PM
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Paint stripper

Quote:
Originally Posted by framuschuck
Also, if I have to strip it, ill just shoot rustoleum on it - kind of get the picture on what kind of car this is?
4 litres of paint stripper just about covered my mustang. There are plenty of how-to paint your car videos online. I bought one from spray paint secrets and the end result after about three months was this.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Mustang Al.
4 litres of paint stripper just about covered my mustang. There are plenty of how-to paint your car videos online. I bought one from spray paint secrets and the end result after about three months was this.
Looks great! I found a few videos on youtube that actually dealt with the same issues that I am dealing with, including the same brand of acrylic lacquer. However, your mustang looks amazing!
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:19 PM
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Man o man ,Its to bad you didnt ask BEFORE you did all this work...Now it has to be stripped to the metal.and the car might not be worth it.......always read the directions BEFORE doing something...All the car needed was a sanding with 180 to get the clear featherd right ,a sealer and some urathane paint...under 500.00 It would have been easier and cheaper going to Macco...
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Old 06-26-2010, 01:24 AM
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Read the directions for preperation and application - turned out it isnt at bad as I made it out to be. Thanks for all the help.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:20 AM
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One thing that helped me a lot was when I found out how to use the search at the top of the page...Just type in paint stripper or rustolium for instance...or first paint job,if the car is just a junker bringing it to an econo paint shop and getting it done for 250.00 is your best bet 10 cans of rustolium will cost about that much...of coarse if you want to learn something and are willing to make an investment acrylic enamel is about 50 -75.00,but you'll need a paint gun and a compressor...If your lucky you can find both for a couple hundred ...the knowledge you gain will be worth it...painting is not that hard if you do what we suggest....everyone agrees .....NO LACQUER PRODUCTS.....
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:42 AM
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Then why do they still make lacquer based acrylics?
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Old 06-26-2010, 08:17 AM
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Because of money...just like the "whirl wind" that you attach to your carburetor to get 75 miles a gallon of gas....someone will always buy it...NOBODY uses lacquer anymore...No pros anyways...do a search on "lacquer paint" and see why...Theres much better stuff out there for the same money

If you want a decent "cheap" paint use acrylic enamel
If you want it to last more than three or four years use urethane.
But use a solid color with no metallic with either one and you'll get a great result..
I wouldn't suggest using a metallic paint because it a lot more complicated and you want your first one to be as easy as possible ....just like the first girl you have sex with...
black Ful-thane runs about 100.00 a gallon ,enough to do two cars or one twice,if you mess up.

there's a thread called "lacquer thinner question" it'll have all the answer's you need...start to finish ,from someone that never did it before.You should see how that turned out ....very, very nice
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by framuschuck
Then why do they still make lacquer based acrylics?
Why do they make a whole store full of crap Chinese tools at Harbor Fright, because there are people who will buy them!

There are places for lacquer, a full on restoration is one of them. But honestly, it is SOOOOOOOO inferior to a modern urethane, even the cheapest junk urethanes are MILES ahead of lacquer in ease of application and durability.

Brian
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:35 AM
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don't knock HF tools ,they have many uses and allow a newbie or youngster to get a job done at a reasonable price for instance die grinders 10.00 at HF or 100.00 from the snapon truck...not only that ,You can buy ten of of them and those ten will out last any one snapon die grinder made in Japan with an American name on it...Snapon wont guarantee any air tool they sell so why would any one buy them???well the truck comes to you and some people that dont know any better think its a status symbol (hey look at me ,I know what I'm doing I use all snap on tools) (yeah ,I'm broke but I look good) but those that have been around a while have seen the change in snapon quality and now know "MOST" "strap-on" tools are for fools ,Sorry ,they're not what they once were and if they didnt come to the shop no one would buy them...Also,with HF air tools it allows someone like me (CHEAP, old fart!!!) to have a dedicated tool for each attachment ...My hf drill only has only had an 1/8 bit in it in a year of constant use .I also have a die grinder for every style wire wheel and and every other attachment I ever use I must have around twenty die grinders alone...It saves an incredible amount of time looking for the tools then changing an attachment every time you need something different...Not all their tools are worth paying the money though...but at the cost its not that expensive finding out which ones don't work or last.buying a GOOD quality paint gun is a good idea ,I haven't had much luck with the HF guns.
All in all I've been satisfied with about 80% of the stuff I bought there and I use some kind of HF tool every day...

Last edited by deadbodyman; 06-26-2010 at 09:42 AM.
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