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Old 07-19-2008, 11:12 PM
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I have a Model A Pickup to build, have Lots of questions.

Hi all.

I am new to the board and have built hot rods many years ago.
I got one more to build and have already asked a few questions.

I think the direction that I want to take this build is, from what I am reading, more in the rat rod build up.
The reason I am saying that is I am not into spending tons of money and having the truck sit while I muster up the money for all the trick stuff along with chroming everything.
Pretty much looking for a driver to enjoy.
The plan will be to get it running, safe and then start making changes as I go.

I can attach pictures of what I have now if anyone wants. I think that is in next to my posting, but I forget what it called where I upload a bunch of pics.
Anyway, I went to Wescots and looked at all the frame specks and I am not really sure what is under this pickup at the moment.
I think the front and rear ends are out of a 40 ford and also have been told that the frame looks to be a 40 ford truck frame. But, not anything like what I seen at Wescots.
I did find the Stock frame that someone Started to Box in so I do have the stock Model A frame for it.

Some of you have told me about the different rear ends to use, places to get adapters to put a 700R transmission onto the back end of a 283 (which I just happened to score one rebuilt to marine specs) but I am not really sure about using that 40 ford stile rear end mounting.

The one thing that I can keep doing is searching ( new to this one ) to find other Model A conversions and see what has been done.

I did see the 9inch ford brake setup which I felt was more than fine for what I am wanting to end up with. Not really into the mega building but Hey, I would like to see what others have done.

Oh, first things first, its a basket job. The body and box is just Sitting on the frame, the front and rear ends are Not bolted in, just setting there.
Only thing missing is the two rear fenders, running boards and splash aprons?
that hide the frame.
I did dig out my old tow bar and found it fits between the frame rails like it was built for it.
I do have a nice car hauler but want to tow this thing back and forth from the home shop to the big shop where I at least have a concrete slab, welder and cutting outfit (torch and gas welding, which I used to be pretty good at)
I will be replacing body panels and such after all the mechanics are taken care off.


At 60 years old, bad back, bad knees, I want to build One more Hot Rod

I will attempt to post a picture of what I would like the outcome to at least look like. Also I will try to get some picture in my album of the truck.

HJ
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:10 AM
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Well however you build it, if it turns out half as nice as that white "A Bone" pick me up with the quarter windows then you'll have a winner. 9" brakes are huge, more than enough for your intended power, but I would go for disc's up front. My TCI chassis came with the Wilwood fronts but I installed the Ford Explorer disc brakes with the built in emerg brake in the rotor hat on thr 9".
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:20 AM
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Liking that idea

I was going for simple and the 9 inch conversion looked pretty simple to me.
I need to cut the firewall back what I think it about 4 inches to allow the Chevy V8 to nest into it. It now has a single master up on the upper part of the cowl with a swinging peddle. Not sure if I like that but having a break system under the floor like my older 50 chevy pickup, I like.
The Ford Explorers are all over the place and would be an easy score at a bone yard I would think.

What axles do you have and any details on how you did your conversion ?
HJ
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:08 AM
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The picture you posted is nice, but It is far from a rat rod build.It's very nice ,but it is more a street rod.What ever you do, good luck,And keep us posted.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:39 PM
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That extended cab would be worth the work to get more cab room, especially with a set-back firewall.


A Model A friend told me that a 26 & 27 Model T door from a coupe or 2dr sedan is the same door as a 28-29 pickup. At least that's what I think he said I think that must be correct because the back part of that white pickup sure looks like a shortened up 26-27 Model T 2dr sedan window opening detail. Maybe you can locate a T donor piece from a junk body??? That extra room in the cab will be great.

No chrome needed as that truck looks great to me.
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:36 PM
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Street Rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
The picture you posted is nice, but It is far from a rat rod build.It's very nice ,but it is more a street rod.What ever you do, good luck,And keep us posted.
Yep, that is really what I meant to use, Street Rod
HJ
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:53 PM
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leg space

Quote:
Originally Posted by F&J
That extended cab would be worth the work to get more cab room, especially with a set-back firewall.


A Model A friend told me that a 26 & 27 Model T door from a coupe or 2dr sedan is the same door as a 28-29 pickup. At least that's what I think he said I think that must be correct because the back part of that white pickup sure looks like a shortened up 26-27 Model T 2dr sedan window opening detail. Maybe you can locate a T donor piece from a junk body??? That extra room in the cab will be great.

No chrome needed as that truck looks great to me.
Here is the picture of my truck and that same panel is in it. Looks as the white truck, he took that panel out and put glass in it.
I like that feature too.
HJ
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:12 PM
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88.....no real conversion, I had Curries build a "9 plus" housing with the round back to fit my needs (in case I ever want to go to a big block someday) and bought their alloy 31 spline axles. I also bought the Explorer disc brake assembly from them at the same time...they gave me a deal on the whole outfit so it worked out pretty good. If you need to know any real tech stuff you can call them at (714) 367-2233...ask for Darrel or ext. 130.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:25 PM
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Keeping it simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 327NUT
88.....no real conversion, I had Curries build a "9 plus" housing with the round back to fit my needs (in case I ever want to go to a big block someday) and bought their alloy 31 spline axles. I also bought the Explorer disc brake assembly from them at the same time...they gave me a deal on the whole outfit so it worked out pretty good. If you need to know any real tech stuff you can call them at (714) 367-2233...ask for Darrel or ext. 130.
Still not real sure what route to take here.
I have the 40 ford frame that looks Much heavier than the Model A for sure.
No X or K frames but that is not hard once I pick the transmisson I want to use.

Looks as I am not going to be able to keep it simple like I was hoping for.
I know I have to recess the firewall but now sure how much to hold the Chevy 283. Its because of that I am not thinking of loosing the swinging peddles and putting something under on the frame like an old stock 50 chevy pickup would be like.

I am about all hot rodded out in terms of Go Fast. If I want Go Fast, I have that covered. I am just looking to Cruise around with this, maybe take in a few rod runs.

I am not looking to get nuts with the suspension or disks all around, trick this, trick and chrome that. Just a Cruiser that is safe.

I once had (back just out of high school) a 29 A Sedan.
All I did to that was change the steering, cut most of the X frame out of my way, weld in a ford 9" rear end to the stock stuff, put in a 283 with a sloppy front mount and a power glide and drove the thing. I did jump on it a few times to notice the frame was weak but she was a cruiser.

My idea of building up a street rod is going to the bone yards to get what I needed, rebuilt and use it. Its just Those cars and trucks are now Classics :-)

What I was looking for is some of the newer stuff that I can use, maybe modify to do what is needed to make a safe cruiser.

Right now, the body and bed is just Sitting on the frame, the rear end is not even bolted to anything. The front end is just bolted with the u bolts to the spring, thats it.

I have been searching the message board, looking at others projects but don't seem to find much on the rear end mounting, other than tricker than trick setups. Again, not what I want to do.

Does anyone have some interesting links, photo builds that I can look at to get more ideas, Frisco, Centerline ??

Even if its a Rat Rod, I could give a rip, I just want to see whats being used from bone yards and not from the guys that sell Show Hot Rod stuff.

Any help in that area guys?

HJ
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:25 AM
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I looked through your journal to see what you have to start with..

It looks like a Model A frame minus the front crossmember. It looks like what was told to you about the axles & suspension; "40 Ford stuff just laying under it."

My opinion? You have a VERY good start,

I would box the Model A rails AFTER finding a stock Model A front crossmember. If you don't want to buy premade boxing plates OR new steel, look for 1/8" stuff at the scrap places that deal in metal..not car junkyards. Lots of semi modern machinery items have nice flat, clean steel to use.

Besides finding an A front crossmember, you need:
-a dropped front axle.
-an original 32-34 front spring OR a repro spring.
-a pair of repro 32-34 ford spring perch bolts. I think the STOCK USED 32-34 bolts will be a little to short where the threads are, IF you use the tube axle!! Repro bolts are LONGER.

Cheapest axle would be a repro tube axle made for the ford transverse spring. You maybe can find a USED one at a swapmeet or from someone who is switching over to a I beam axle just for looks. Check craigslist.org for parts too, I found a brand new dropped tube for $100 on our local craigslist.

Cheapest front spring would be used, found at a swapmeet. I have found 3 this spring, all under $25. Two of them were the correct width for a dropped tube, and one was for a I-beam. They are 1" difference in width.

The reasons to go with the TUBE axle:
-You already have the CORRECT size front wishbones for a tube; they need a 2-1/4" perch "yoke" that attaches to the axle. Your 40 bones will fit. You can either split the bones slightly for trans clearance, or maybe even run them unsplit...my bud ran unsplit in a 34 coupe with 283-stick. (to use your 40 bones, on an axle with the spring directly ABOVE the axle, you just cut off the extensions on the front of your 40 bones) EDIT: I'll have to measure up my 40 bones AND the perch bolt hole width on my tube axle, to see IF you can run the bone unsplit....you may need to split them.

- save those 40 brakes, spindles, and tierods, you CAN use them on the tube. Get a Vega steering box to steer off the passenger side steering arm that has 2 tapered holes. OR, like Deuce told me, you could use a 40 steering box (if you have one) Ask Deuce what years would be the same as a 40 box if you have donor cars around.

REAR suspension:
-go with the 9" ford differential.


MODEL A framerails do not have a kick-up like 32 & later, so you will need advice from other A guys here on the transverse rear suspension.

There "might" be a way to use the following:

- save that 40 FRONT spring to use in the rear! (I am using the same in my 32 build, it sits lower than a REAR spring) You will be taking some leaves out during the final chassis tuning, after the full weight of a finished truck is assembled.

-Build some sort of traction bars like Centerline has on his 32 build. Keep the front attachment of the bars close together. Also, build a simple rear spring crossmember like Centerline has.

Like I said, A's don't have a kick-up, so you may need to build a kick to get the rear lower. Someone should be able to help you here on that problem.


Lastly...is that a mahogany classic speedboat in the pic above?

Last edited by F&J; 07-22-2008 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 07-22-2008, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F&J
That extended cab would be worth the work to get more cab room, especially with a set-back firewall.


A Model A friend told me that a 26 & 27 Model T door from a coupe or 2dr sedan is the same door as a 28-29 pickup. At least that's what I think he said I think that must be correct because the back part of that white pickup sure looks like a shortened up 26-27 Model T 2dr sedan window opening detail. Maybe you can locate a T donor piece from a junk body??? That extra room in the cab will be great.

No chrome needed as that truck looks great to me.
That is not an extended cab. They just they just cut out the panel and added a window.All model A frames are the same so if you need one that makes it easier to find.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:52 AM
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More Photos to come

F&J, I have more pictures to share once I get home and off load them from the camera. I will come back and edit this.
yes, its a Chriscraft runabout that we restored. I restore old boats from the 40s and glass boats from the 50's.

Here is the image of the front end now. I looked at it, then looked at the Model A frame that I go with it and this frame is much heavier and I was told by a friend that its real possible its a 40 ford pickup frame.
Here you can see I have the cross member set in.
HJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by F&J


I looked through your journal to see what you have to start with..

It looks like a Model A frame minus the front crossmember. It looks like what was told to you about the axles & suspension; "40 Ford stuff just laying under it."

My opinion? You have a VERY good start,

I would box the Model A rails AFTER finding a stock Model A front crossmember. If you don't want to buy premade boxing plates OR new steel, look for 1/8" stuff at the scrap places that deal in metal..not car junkyards. Lots of semi modern machinery items have nice flat, clean steel to use.

Besides finding an A front crossmember, you need:
-a dropped front axle.
-an original 32-34 front spring OR a repro spring.
-a pair of repro 32-34 ford spring perch bolts. I think the STOCK USED 32-34 bolts will be a little to short where the threads are, IF you use the tube axle!! Repro bolts are LONGER.

Cheapest axle would be a repro tube axle made for the ford transverse spring. You maybe can find a USED one at a swapmeet or from someone who is switching over to a I beam axle just for looks. Check craigslist.org for parts too, I found a brand new dropped tube for $100 on our local craigslist.

Cheapest front spring would be used, found at a swapmeet. I have found 3 this spring, all under $25. Two of them were the correct width for a dropped tube, and one was for a I-beam. They are 1" difference in width.

The reasons to go with the TUBE axle:
-You already have the CORRECT size front wishbones for a tube; they need a 2-1/4" perch "yoke" that attaches to the axle. Your 40 bones will fit. You can either split the bones slightly for trans clearance, or maybe even run them unsplit...my bud ran unsplit in a 34 coupe with 283-stick. (to use your 40 bones, on an axle with the spring directly ABOVE the axle, you just cut off the extensions on the front of your 40 bones) EDIT: I'll have to measure up my 40 bones AND the perch bolt hole width on my tube axle, to see IF you can run the bone unsplit....you may need to split them.

- save those 40 brakes, spindles, and tierods, you CAN use them on the tube. Get a Vega steering box to steer off the passenger side steering arm that has 2 tapered holes. OR, like Deuce told me, you could use a 40 steering box (if you have one) Ask Deuce what years would be the same as a 40 box if you have donor cars around.

REAR suspension:
-go with the 9" ford differential.


MODEL A framerails do not have a kick-up like 32 & later, so you will need advice from other A guys here on the transverse rear suspension.

There "might" be a way to use the following:

- save that 40 FRONT spring to use in the rear! (I am using the same in my 32 build, it sits lower than a REAR spring) You will be taking some leaves out during the final chassis tuning, after the full weight of a finished truck is assembled.

-Build some sort of traction bars like Centerline has on his 32 build. Keep the front attachment of the bars close together. Also, build a simple rear spring crossmember like Centerline has.

Like I said, A's don't have a kick-up, so you may need to build a kick to get the rear lower. Someone should be able to help you here on that problem.


Lastly...is that a mahogany classic speedboat in the pic above?
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:08 AM
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F&J posted some great suggestions for your project.

I would also suggest using the Model 'A' frame that you have. Even for a mild small block, I would suggest boxing it at least half way back. All the way is best. I would definitely stay with the original style front axle assembly. Both side steering or cross steering works very well. A new front crossmember is available from several aftermarket company's. Check out Speedway Motors for most of your needs. Install it in the original location. The Model 'A' frame does not have an 'X' member. The stock crossmember can be removed for clearance if necessary and a new trans crossmember can be fabricated for whatever trans you want to run. I suggest using a spring over the axle front end rather than the later front end shown in your photos. Spring hangers can be fabbed or purchased to install any rear end you wish in the rear. While the stock Model 'A' rear spring is often used; you might consider using coil springs (Corvair front springs are a good size to use) in the rear. The ride is excellent as compared to the stock style rear spring. To run any size small block Chevrolet V-8 engine in a Model 'A' frame you will need to install a 4" recessed firewall. If you use a large cap HEI distributor you will need to use a 5" recessed firewall. For a 1928-1929 Ford only the lower section of the firewall needs to be recessed. The '28-'29 Ford Closed Cab Pickup is pretty small inside. I used the stock seat springs but flattened out the seat rear cushion to give me an additional 2"-3" of room (front to back). Modifying the cab to look like an extended cab will give additional room but loses the appearance in my opinion. I like the stock wheelbase, stock hood length, and stock cab size of the '28-'29 Ford Closed Cabs. Shortening the pickup bed some is OK.

You have a good project! ENJOY!!!
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:08 AM
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I understand the desire to get most everything " used " and out of the junkyard ... But the fact is ... all that stuff is at least 60 - 70 years old and usually very abused. I suggest ... for the sake of time, safety and even money saved in the long run ... buy a new Model A frame. Like this one ... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Model...QQcmdZViewItem



New non fatigued metal, crossmember already installed, made from 2X4 .125 box tubing and ready to be worked on. You can not hardly buy the metal, the crossmember and have everything square for this amount of money.

The frame is the foundation for the car and I like having the best foundation I can have to build on. Save money somewhere else ...

Like Frisco said ... coil springs do ride good ... I have this setup under both my 32 Ford Roadster and 32 Ford 3W coupe. It could very easily be duplicated without all the shiny chrome and polished stainless steel. The same for the aluminum 9 inch center section.



Another good way ( BELOW ) that rides decent and is reasonable in cost is this way .. ( shown on a 32 Ford chassis )



I like to use a early Bronco 9 inch Ford rear end. That is the 9 inch shown installed above and also what is under my 32 Ford roadster ... the early Bronco uses the same wheel pattern as your 40 Ford brake stuff ... ( 5 on 5.5 wheel pattern ) so the front and rear wheel pattern is the same



A dropped axle gets the Model A sitting lower ... and your 40 spindles and brakes will go on a reproduction dropped axle. The new axles are less expensive than having a original dropped ... and with a new axle ... you get new, round holes for your king pins ...

_______________________________________________

Lots of ways to go here ...
You decide what is SAFE ... and best for you ... keep us posted

Deuce ... Moderator
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:56 PM
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Good advice

This is all good advice.

Question before I forget. How to you Insert the images into the text like you guys have been doing ?? All I can find is the Attachment area.

I like the detailed pictures.

I grew up working in my dads wrecking yard, built many of junk yard rods, cut and weld things together. I still like the idea of using many things from wrecking yards, but time is money too.

How about brake systems and battery mounts in these old pickups.
Coupes, you have a trunk to hide that stuff in.

Frisco, you own a Model A pickup, any more details you are willing to share?

I will go look at your project journal and poke around too.
HJ
I know the A Bone frames are different than the Deuce frames
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