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Old 06-29-2008, 05:33 AM
Riley
 

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I need a drum to disc brakes for a 1930 chevy 1 1/2 ton truck,any ideas?

The truck has the original drum brakes on it which are cable style brakes. I want to put hydraulic brakes on it but I can't seem to find a hub or disc that will fit on the stock spindle. I am not knowing where to look or something. Any referance will help. Thanks.

Also, I will be putting a ford 302 with a 5 speed in it with the (1979 or 1980) rear end under the truck. Any ideas what type of steering box I can use? The 302 has headers if that matters any. Any referance help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Old 06-29-2008, 06:12 AM
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I have taken old spindles off to turn them down on a lathe and/or shorten them for disc brakes. You are changing the shaft dimentions to fit the bearings on the newer rotor hub...lot's of people do that to oddball cars/trucks that have no kits available.

But I think that 1.5 ton axle setup will leave your tire looking weird in that huge front fender.

I'd mock it up first. Fender on frame, take old hub off, and then put a "normal size tire/wheel" right centered at that spindle. I suppose it would look OK if you wanted the gasser look with nose up.


Steering from the side like it has? Early Mustang requires an angle plate welded below the rail. Or, early F100 ford pickups mid-later 1950s
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:18 AM
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needin hydraulic front brakes,not cable.

F&J,Well if you had taken old spindles off and turned them down then what do you think might work as a replacement front brake system? Remember, I am on a budget, and the old lady isn't goin to put up with me taken a long time to do it.

About the tire size, hell nowadays you can buy 20 INCH rims! So I am more than sure I will find the right tire and rim size.

what did you mean by steering side to side? you kinda threw me off there.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:57 AM
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I think F&J is right about the wheel size in the fender opening...
As far as finding disc brake databases, and then getting all of the stuff to work together..... you are in for some work...

Wilwood has a page that lists dimensional characteristics of hubs for various cars...but it requires that you plug the bearing size in to get what spindle dimensions will work with that hub. That page does list what the original application is so it could be of some help....(It is for cars though, so the selection of sizes may be too small.)

There are conversion bearings that will give multiple outside dimensions for a given shaft dimension, these can be found in a Timken catalog, those are usually found at industrial supply places like Motion Industries, or Applied Technologies, (formerly King bearing). A company called Green bearing used to sell conversion bearings for many cars, but a 30 chevy 1 1/2 ton was probably not a real popular swap.

Also, National seal and CR seal companies have seals listed by dimension in their industrial catalogs, so you may be able to find a dust seal to fit your rotor once you get it. (although the spindle you have probably does not have a step for a hub mounted seal.)

Wagner and Raybestos have catalogs, typically called "master catalogs" or " illustrated buyers guides" that will list stock type rotors and give some of the dimensions. These will require you to get real friendly with a parts store guy, who still has these paper catalogs, and you can belly up to the counter for a few hours with your dimensions and try to find something close that you can then go find a bearing that will fit.


After all of that , you may find that you are frustrated to the point that you just turn the spindles down to fit something that you can get close with, as F&J has suggested, ( every post I read from him impresses me ) , but you will still have to fabricate a caliper bracket and attach it...


I always think about whether or not machining on a spindle will disrupt any heat treating that spindle has, and weaken it.


OR you can send the whole spindle off to a company that will fit brakes for you, such as Brake tech solutions, but that will cost money. It may be money well spent though, as it will save you a great deal of time and frustration and possibly money too, please read on.


OR you may be able to seperate the current drum from the hub, and find a slip on disc rotor from a truck or large car that will fit over it. This will allow you to keep the current spindle and hub, then make a bracket for your caliper. Machine work in removing the old drum, turning down the hub, opening up rotor center, changing bolt pattern or hub flange OD will probably be necessary.
If that truck has wheel bearings that are ball bearings instead of tapered rollers, I'd try to get some conversion roller bearings to fit, as the ball bearings don't like the speeds and side loads that todays road speeds and tires will impose upon them. Spacers/adapters may be necessary.

Another option is to find a straight axle from a newer truck, and adapt it to the springs you have, but you will find that most things with straight axles have hydraulic drums...which may work fine...I have a friend with a 48 COE and he kept the stock drum brakes....They were designed to stop an 8000 pound truck with 2 tons of stuff...they work great with no load.


As far as your wife getting involved in the cost and timeline of your project.....With that restriction, you should probably just give up now , because the time and effort that you are going to put in on that project will not make her happy at all. If you don't have access to some good equipment, and the skills to use that equipment, you will find yourself in for some substantial machine shop/fab shop expenses as well. A company that specializes in doing the brake conversions is already set up for this type of work,, and depending on your experience/skill level, will probably cost less than doing it yourself in the long run.

I don't mean to upset you, but I've been through this before, and know exactly how this movie will go.


Here is a thread that you may find useful...
Database for brake disks?


Then there is always the option of doing a front clip from a 1/2 or 3/4 ton Chevy truck....( I don't know what the end use of your truck will be....)

Hope this helps...
later, mikey
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:22 PM
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brakes and spindle stuff

I have to go to work now. but this post was very interesting. Lot's of goog info. I will coment and reply with more later. Thanks.
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:02 PM
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I would not worry about machining the spindles if it is done correctly. When I did the first ones on a 30 DeSoto in 1980, Ralph, the owner/founder of ECI brake was always looking over everyones projects at the rod club. He WILL let you know if what you are doing is unsafe. He has a masters degree in mechanical engineering and prior to ECI, was an engineer for either Pratt & Whitney or Hamilton Prop, as well as Jacobs Tool (drill chucks). I think he wrote a lot of brake info on his site, but probably not anything about machining spindles.

I don't know if later spindles are case hardened (outer layer hardened), but the early stuff I've done, is not; just run a worn file across it to see if it skates over it, or digs in. The important thing is not leaving a perfect 90* cut at the base of your bearing boss after you resize it. You need to do a radius to prevent a stress point. All early spindles should be able to be chucked by the outer wheel bearing area past the threads. Then there will be a machined "center hole" on the back to use a "dead center" on the tailstock of the lathe. That 1.5 ton should have some good size to the spindle shaft to work down to a modern bearing size for whatever rotor you choose. Hopefully you won't need to machine the area that you are chucked on to. That still would be Ok if the spindle was too long, because you can remachine the outer bearing area further inboard, and cut the extra length off later. Your machinist may even use a face plate & lathe dog on the other end if it works out better....several options to cut them down.

Caliper style is tricky as you now need to make strong brackets to hold them and hook to the original Chevy backing plate holes. This is all "measure & see what might fit" at the junkyard. Not easy or quick.


Don't forget; that old of a front end will not have tapered holes for tierods & drag link. It will have a ball instead. Either run the stock style adjustable joints (if the whole thing is not all rusted up and worn out) or cut the ball off and do a tapered hole for modern rod ends. Not easy either...nothing's easy if you are in a rush.

Maybe do an independent front end? but it will be quite noticable on that type of fender. I did see a 40 Chevy cabover last Sunday that had the Chevy pickup coil front end, and it looked Ok on that.

F-100 steering box might be the easiest for your stock front end style. It has a side drag link like the Chevy, where later Ford cars used a cross steer from the box over to the passenger spindle arm. You don't have a spare hole over there, so a side drag link type box may be the best bet... But you need to find a box that is not worn out..not easy either because trucks were used-up a lot.
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Old 06-29-2008, 07:26 PM
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Hmmm. very interesting.

"In for some work", that I can do and I don't mind. Wheel size. The wheels I can find, I'm possitive. It's the thing the wheels go on that I am more concerned in getting. Hell they make 16's and 20 inch rims for cars now. I can FIND some wheels, trust me. Hey I will definately check out that wilwood websight. Sounds cool. Heck I'm gunna look into that Timken catalog, King bearing,Green bearing, National seal, CR seal, Wagnor and raybestos catalogs, and all that stuff! The slip on disc sounds interesting if it can be made to work. 'Don't know yet if the truck has ball bearing or roller bearings but I definately will be switching to roller bearing if need be. Straight axles. Straight axle swap sounds like unneeded work and more money. The springs are fine with me, but, any way to get a heavier duty top spring? The one that connects to the mount on the frame? I'd like to at least find those and put them on. Gotta remember that there is a heavyer motor up front now,thus, I believe, the need for a stronger top spring. By the way..I WOULD like to have dics brakes, but if I can get a set of hub brakes rather uncostly then I wouldn't be broken hearted to have to go with them instead. Just tryin to get it all together asap so the old lady won't have something to B_tch about. Great post Mikey!! I appreciate it. Thanks. Hope to hear more from you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
I think F&J is right about the wheel size in the fender opening...
As far as finding disc brake databases, and then getting all of the stuff to work together..... you are in for some work...

Wilwood has a page that lists dimensional characteristics of hubs for various cars...but it requires that you plug the bearing size in to get what spindle dimensions will work with that hub. That page does list what the original application is so it could be of some help....(It is for cars though, so the selection of sizes may be too small.)

There are conversion bearings that will give multiple outside dimensions for a given shaft dimension, these can be found in a Timken catalog, those are usually found at industrial supply places like Motion Industries, or Applied Technologies, (formerly King bearing). A company called Green bearing used to sell conversion bearings for many cars, but a 30 chevy 1 1/2 ton was probably not a real popular swap.

Also, National seal and CR seal companies have seals listed by dimension in their industrial catalogs, so you may be able to find a dust seal to fit your rotor once you get it. (although the spindle you have probably does not have a step for a hub mounted seal.)

Wagner and Raybestos have catalogs, typically called "master catalogs" or " illustrated buyers guides" that will list stock type rotors and give some of the dimensions. These will require you to get real friendly with a parts store guy, who still has these paper catalogs, and you can belly up to the counter for a few hours with your dimensions and try to find something close that you can then go find a bearing that will fit.


After all of that , you may find that you are frustrated to the point that you just turn the spindles down to fit something that you can get close with, as F&J has suggested, ( every post I read from him impresses me ) , but you will still have to fabricate a caliper bracket and attach it...


I always think about whether or not machining on a spindle will disrupt any heat treating that spindle has, and weaken it.


OR you can send the whole spindle off to a company that will fit brakes for you, such as Brake tech solutions, but that will cost money. It may be money well spent though, as it will save you a great deal of time and frustration and possibly money too, please read on.


OR you may be able to seperate the current drum from the hub, and find a slip on disc rotor from a truck or large car that will fit over it. This will allow you to keep the current spindle and hub, then make a bracket for your caliper. Machine work in removing the old drum, turning down the hub, opening up rotor center, changing bolt pattern or hub flange OD will probably be necessary.
If that truck has wheel bearings that are ball bearings instead of tapered rollers, I'd try to get some conversion roller bearings to fit, as the ball bearings don't like the speeds and side loads that todays road speeds and tires will impose upon them. Spacers/adapters may be necessary.

Another option is to find a straight axle from a newer truck, and adapt it to the springs you have, but you will find that most things with straight axles have hydraulic drums...which may work fine...I have a friend with a 48 COE and he kept the stock drum brakes....They were designed to stop an 8000 pound truck with 2 tons of stuff...they work great with no load.


As far as your wife getting involved in the cost and timeline of your project.....With that restriction, you should probably just give up now , because the time and effort that you are going to put in on that project will not make her happy at all. If you don't have access to some good equipment, and the skills to use that equipment, you will find yourself in for some substantial machine shop/fab shop expenses as well. A company that specializes in doing the brake conversions is already set up for this type of work,, and depending on your experience/skill level, will probably cost less than doing it yourself in the long run.

I don't mean to upset you, but I've been through this before, and know exactly how this movie will go.


Here is a thread that you may find useful...
Database for brake disks?


Then there is always the option of doing a front clip from a 1/2 or 3/4 ton Chevy truck....( I don't know what the end use of your truck will be....)

Hope this helps...
later, mikey

Last edited by powerrodsmike; 06-29-2008 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Other.
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:04 PM
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Have fun, you should probably get yourself some decent dial calipers, and start measuring what you have. You will need to draw a picture of your spindle, with all of the dimensions that you have already as a start.

Possibly a trip to the junkyard to compare some spindles that are still mounted on cars, (so you know which car to ask for rotors from), will give you another place to start looking for a viable donor.
I edited your post to fix the quote box..


later, mikey
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:08 PM
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F&J Great post, thanks.

Your reply was real helpful. allthough I got a whole lot of information from you and mikey I am still undecided on what to do. This is the way I figure it. I have to do whatever will take the least amount of time. So if that means just finding hubs that will fit instead of discs, so be it. I can allready hear the lod lady, "when you gunna fix that thing? when you gonna get that out of here"? I think of a name for a female dog in heat right about now. Anyway, I have more issues besides just the front brake set up. So as soon as I can get this one out of my hair the quicker I can move in to the other problems with the truck.
Your talk of machining the spindles is most interesting. Ans as I had said to Mikey I will have to do the research on all of the thjings he (and you) have said. I bet I find what I need based just on what you two guys have told me so far, (hopefully that is).

The truck is in real bad shape. My dad once told me I needed to learn the differance between a builder automobile and a parts vehicle. Well, I bet I got a parts vehicle. But how many of these old ones do you see around? Not that many or else everybody would be driving one around. So that's my reasoning as to why I want to build this. That and I've been wanting to build one for a few years now,and I saw a low price, and I got gitty! I am going to learn how to send pictures here. some start to finish pictures, you know. Anyway. Thanks for the reply and your very useful info. Hope to hear from you again sometime.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:23 PM
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Thanks Mikey...haven't quite got the hang of it yet.

posting that is. But fun I will have. And I allready have some good dial calipers to work with. Making a diagram of the spindle I have was a real good idea. I see many trips to the junk yard too. Thanks again.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:16 PM
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I have seen a few post similiar to this one about putting brakes on the original early chevy axle.
I have yet to figure this out. I have stumbled across the ECI kit which is cost $400 or so for a bolt on front discbrake setup for the axle.

if there is any other cheaper way i can brakes i would like to know.

are there any articles on turning spindles?
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:36 PM
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I just went thru the same decision process with my '48 Diamond T one ton pickup. I want disk brakes, and independant front suspension, power steering. The obvious choice I thought was a mid 70's thru 90's Chev, the entire front suspension unbolts from the frame rails, and the frame width is the same as my DT's. Easy, no?

Well, yes and no. The Chev/GMC fronts are much wider than the track on my DT and your Chev. I don't want the tires hanging outside the fenders, but hit on the answer from a guy on the HAMB. Use the one ton or 3/4 ton front spindles, but and use rotors from a 3/4 or one ton SINGLE wheel set up, and the dually wheel. This will push the rim inboard, and if it's too much, use a spacer, readily available, to space the wheel outboard the amount you need.

I have the front suspension from the '93 van I just bought, a half ton, and the complete front suspension from a single wheel one ton, A arms and all. The A arms and spindles I'm swapping onto the half ton crossmember (they're the same) and I just bought a set of 4 Dodge one ton aluminum wheels from a buddy, 17" with Michelon 10 plys mounted. These have so much neg. offset that I think I'll be able to use them on the hubs and just barely keep the tires under the fenders, which is what I want.

You could to the same, if you don't one ton stuff (I do) with neg. backspaced wheels. I bought the entire '93 van for a donor for 800 bucks, so it doesn't get much cheaper than that, tell your wife!

YOu can see my DT project in my journal, 'Flynbrian's Fordillac' here.

Brian
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:27 PM
F&J F&J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 31chevy
I have seen a few post similiar to this one about putting brakes on the original early chevy axle.
I have yet to figure this out. I have stumbled across the ECI kit which is cost $400 or so for a bolt on front discbrake setup for the axle.

if there is any other cheaper way i can brakes i would like to know.

are there any articles on turning spindles?

You must be real close to ECI. They are in Ellington Ct in a small industrial park. Call them up to see if they would be able to sell you just the brackets & adapters. The rotors & calipers are very likely a stock item at a boneyard or parts store. Just explain your budget crisis, and "maybe" they would sell just what you need. Worth a try??
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:22 PM
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reply to flynbrian48

Well ya, usin the 1 ton set up was good for you...but for me I was thinking maybe a 1/2 ton disc or hub with some 16 inch rims on it. They sell all kinds of crazy rims out there nowadays. Haven't quite got the hang of the quote button yet. sorry.

I can see I may be going to jail over this old truck project when the old lady finds out I just bought a 1979 mustang with a 302 with edelbrock intake and holly 4 barrow with a 5 speed and positrack rear end in it all for the donor car. The axle is a little wide for the truck...but thats all I have. maybe get it cut down later on after its rollin. Thank god my dad showed me how to make a driveshaft years ago,gonna need it. I bet she gets so mad I end up having to take the whole project over to my old uncles house to finish it. And that worries me. That's a bad side of town. Plus having to drag all my sh_t ot of the toolroom,load it in the truck,drive half way across town,unload and go to work, then reload after putting in blood sweat and tears and going home again and unloading and all. I tell ya..If I didn't like that old truck so much I wouldn't even bother. May jst rent one of them storage garages for 60 dollers a month and do everything over there. Why do some woman just freak plum OUT and get mad when we guys bring home some unfinished work of art?
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Old 07-01-2008, 05:44 AM
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Sounds to me like figuring out what to do with the brakes is the least of your worries with this project...This isn't Dear Abby, but you and your wife have some problems if you can't tell her what you're doing
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