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Old 06-05-2010, 09:01 PM
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i see sanding strokes from bodywork they weren't there last week?

i painted my 50 chevy fleetline about 4 weeks ago, came out beautifull! 2 stage dupont paint. this is going to sound very cheap of me , but i mixed all my leftover dupont base coat paints together ( metalic aqua, metalic pewter and metalic purple). well it looks alot better than it sounds, LOL!! but anyway it's all wetsanded and buffed out and yesterday in my garage when i was going up on the lift , as the lights hit the fender i saw the sanding marks under the basecoat from the bodywork i did. they were not there last week, i mean it still looks good , but did my primer get goofy? they were definately not there when i painted the basecoat ,and the primer was wetsanded with 800 and was smoothe as glass. what did i do wrong. the primer was fully cured, it was an omni brand filler primer with a hardner not an epoxy. i can't use epoxy because i don't have a real spraybooth and if i can't wetsand the ocasional fly and minute dust out it's no good for me. i just want to know so i don't do it to my next paint job. thanks
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:20 PM
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"what did i do wrong. the primer was fully cured,"

but the filler or glaze coat were not fully dried, yes they do have solvents in them and there is shrinkage. Next time let them set, break the gloss off and let them fully cure before you finish blocking. Too much hardener is NOT a good thing either.

Actually love the color, perfect fit for the car.
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:40 AM
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You didn't mention how mamy coats of primer either. I like to put as many as six coats of primer and block it back again. It helps to prevent any of those scratch marks you describe.
i also like to get filler as glossy as possible with 500 or finer and not use itr unless i really have to.
I love the color ,it's a pity theres no formula for it..
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:45 AM
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i named the color "Plum Crazy". i don't remember spraying the primer on a pannel at leas 24 hours after i sanded it. probibly put 4 coats of primer on but after i sanded it it was probibly down to 2. i didn,t use much glazing puddy, i was told the primer i was using was ok to replace the the glazing puddy with. so i did my bodywork all bondo, last sanded with 220 and sprayed with the omni fill primer. it worked great, it filled up all the scratches and pinholes, but maybe the guy steered me wrong?
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:16 AM
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I would say you reduced your 2k primer filler with urethane reducer. The reducer evaporated and shrunk the filler primer. After you applied your top coats, the reducer evaporated and the top coat sank into the sanding scratches.

This is a common problem with lacquer primer also. You must let the filler completely dry.

I use a lot of lacquer primer to check my work when doing body work. It dries super fast, and sand very easy. I apply a light coat of black lacquer primer as a guide coat over the light grey lacquer primer. The use of lacquer primer is an asset in production shops due to it's fast drying capabilities. A car sitting is taking up space, and space costs money. With lacquer primer, you can sand it within 20 minutes. 2K primer cures slowly and you must wait as long as 3 hours to sand it. There are 2k primers available from Kirker that cures sooner, but you still can sand them for a least an hour.

So regardless which filler primer you use, you must give it enough time to cure and shrink.

Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:33 PM
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One other possibility. You said you didn't see the scratches until it was on a lift. My shop is not really well lit, and sometimes, when we get them out in the sun, and up on a car trailer, I see things near the bottom of the body that I could not see in the shop.

Once I knew this I started checking the lower body closer during the paint process. If it looks good on the ground, I would not stress too much.... unless it was a serious show car.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:57 PM
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it's not a serious show car , but it is my pride and joy, aside from my daughter! i can proudly say i did it all , and i mean all, myself! thats a very good feeling. i think countilaw is on to something, but i had sprayed my 2 front fenders in primer about a month before they were wetsanded and painted, that had to be plenty of time for it to cure? rite?
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:04 PM
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That color reminds me of the similar, but lighter, '57 Chevy shade.
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:07 PM
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it's wierd because in different light conditions you can see the different colors pop. sometimes it looks greyish, sometimes the aqua pops out more and mostly the plum color shows
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazeyone
i think countilaw is on to something, but i had sprayed my 2 front fenders in primer about a month before they were wetsanded and painted, that had to be plenty of time for it to cure? rite?
Yes a month is PLENTY of time for the primer to do what ever it was going to do. You probably just overlooked them. Very easy to do. The metalic settled in them and they stand out now. Now, for the lacquer primer talk. NO decent bodyshop uses lacquer primer. And the comment about how it is a benifit to production shops..... walk into ANY production shop and ask what kind of primer they use. I will guarantee out of 100 body shops, 101 of them will ALL say 2k! I will also guarantee that almost all MAACOs will tell you they use 2k. Just a fact of life.
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazeyone
i named the color "Plum Crazy". i don't remember spraying the primer on a pannel at leas 24 hours after i sanded it. probibly put 4 coats of primer on but after i sanded it it was probibly down to 2. i didn,t use much glazing puddy, i was told the primer i was using was ok to replace the the glazing puddy with. so i did my bodywork all bondo, last sanded with 220 and sprayed with the omni fill primer. it worked great, it filled up all the scratches and pinholes, but maybe the guy steered me wrong?
220 is miles to course for the filler primer to do it's job. you will get ghost marks every time . A minimum should have been 400. i have used 600 on filler to get a glassy look,sprayed Spies hecker filler over it ,then sanded that to eliminate any trace of the work on the bondo,then fill primed it. The micron thickness of the finish coats was little thicker than it should haver been but there was no trace of bondo evident either..LOL! but you have done a nice job!
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Old 06-06-2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercmad63
220 is miles to course for the filler primer to do it's job. you will get ghost marks every time . A minimum should have been 400. i have used 600 on filler to get a glassy look,sprayed Spies hecker filler over it ,then sanded that to eliminate any trace of the work on the bondo,then fill primed it. The micron thickness of the finish coats was little thicker than it should haver been but there was no trace of bondo evident either..LOL! but you have done a nice job!
You are the ONLY person I have ever heard suggest sanding filler that smooth. Paint companies dont even tell you to go that smooth. I have work with TONS of body men and none EVER went smoother than 220 before primer. And never had problems with showing bodywork. It only showed when they tried filling 80 grit
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underground
Now, for the lacquer primer talk. NO decent bodyshop uses lacquer primer. And the comment about how it is a benifit to production shops..... walk into ANY production shop and ask what kind of primer they use. I will guarantee out of 100 body shops, 101 of them will ALL say 2k! I will also guarantee that almost all MAACOs will tell you they use 2k. Just a fact of life.
Underground I am so glad you are such a ------- fantastic body man and painter. You think you know EVERYTHING yet you know NOTHING!!!

You been working on cars for 22 years???? Yet have only one picture of a piece of junk sitting in a field. If you know so much about body and paint, let see some pictures of your personal work.

I've seen many people who can talk the talk, but can't walk the walk.

I've been building cars for 46 years. I started before you were a wet spot on the back of the chicken coup. You really need to stop giving advice you know very little about or can not back up.

You wouldn't last a week in my shop. YES, my shop, you see, I own a shop, I must be one of that 101st shop you don't know about that uses lacquer primer. Before you start quoting statistics, you need to get your facts straight. You don't think that we shop owns don't talk among ourselves. We know what we use, and usually borrow some from each other. We also know about punk kids that profess to be experts but yet are not dry behind the ears, that like to brag that they only use the most expensive products on the market.

As I have said before, a production shop can't afford to let a car sit for several hours waiting for primer to cure/dry. Time is money. And Maaco uses lacquer primer and then only when they use bondo. Most of the time, they just scuff the paint with a scotchbrite pad and paint it. How else do you think they get a car in and out in the same day.

Frank Cox
Owner
Cox Custom Cars
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:56 PM
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DUDE, get YOUR facts straight. NOTHING I have posted is a lie. NOTHING! EVERYBODy here KNOWS lacquer is an inferior product. I don't own a shop because I don't HAVE to. See, I make more money with less headaches. That's a fact. Another fact is I don't have to post pictures to valadate what I say. I also don't use the most expensive products. I use what is PROVEN to give the best results. Like I said all anybody has to do is call ANY shop in their town and I can GUARANTEE 99% of the shops use 2k and NOT lacquer. I say 99% because there will be that one shop like yours that uses it. EVERY shop I have done bodywork or painted in have all used 2k primer. ALL. Body guys in production shops work on more than 1 car at a time. I have yet to hear anybody complain about having to wait for primer to dry. If they want to to speed up, they puta light on it and bake it. Just a fact, bubba. NOW as far as MAACO, there are 3 in the kansas city area, NONE use lacquer primer,NONE just scuff the cars and paint. EVERYONE are sanded with cheap sandpaper. All three use urethane paint. I can give you phone numbers if you want to call and check. Know YOUR facts!!!
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Old 06-06-2010, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underground
You are the ONLY person I have ever heard suggest sanding filler that smooth. Paint companies dont even tell you to go that smooth. I have work with TONS of body men and none EVER went smoother than 220 before primer. And never had problems with showing bodywork. It only showed when they tried filling 80 grit
Hi,i can understand that. The use of fine sand paper is a pain for a lot guys because you use so much ( I only get a few minutes from each peice but i am looking for perfection not speed )but the point is, the finish is what the customer sees. Rather than use black laquer(perhaps i call it something else today) I use a black base coat with a satin finish. The job is placed outside in the sun and everyone has a look . Often some big fualts are found,often none. but the process you describe is how the HIGH end guys do it. Smash work aint my thing,never has been and i have no interest in pulling prangs back to shape.
heres a couple i have done,the blue one is my daily ,the other ...$750,000 300SL. Both restored over a period of many years ( as funds allowed.. ) .back to work now.
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Last edited by mercmad63; 06-06-2010 at 07:43 PM.
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