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Old 11-24-2010, 03:55 PM
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I think my starter is getting heat soaked.

pontiac 455 (fresh motor) less than 100 miles on it. to my knowledge its the original starter that was on the 350 pontiac that was in the car before i mate the swap. now i had headers on the 350 and i never had a problem with it starting hot. now with the 455 after driving for a while and everything gets up to temp it tends to crank slowly, sometimes scary slow. ive checked the alternator and its charging well. so is there a different starter i can get or will fabing a heat shield help me?

just so everyone knows the headers come mighty close to the starter.

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Old 11-24-2010, 04:07 PM
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I have a set of Hookers on my 400 in my 78 T/A and a mini starter and no heat shield with no problems yet anyway.


Cole
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:09 PM
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Do the mini starters have any more cranking power then a stock one?
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:12 PM
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I had the same issue with my SBC 385. I have shortie headman headers and a aluminum starter and I took the heat shield off and after it got to running temp I couldn't get it started. Seemed like the started seized with the heat but once it cooled down it cranked slowly untill like 150 degrees and then it was normal. Try a thick heat shield. thats my next step other then that is back to stock for me lol. rather annoying when your truck doesnt start and your next in line at the track haha.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersonRacing44
Do the mini starters have any more cranking power then a stock one?
Everyone i have seen has had more. You can get some pretty high torque high cranking mini starters anymore. JMO



Cole
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:21 PM
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if there not to pricey i think ill just look into one of those. thanks for the replys
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:33 PM
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I ran stock starters on ponchos with headers for some time and if the starter is healthy and the bat cable is large enough with clean connections i never had a problem. The headers i used were all ways coated, which i'm sure helped a lot.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersonRacing44
if there not to pricey i think ill just look into one of those. thanks for the replys
I gave $150 for the one on my camaro it had a stock starter without a shield and it kept getting heat soaked so i bought the mini for it and it's been fine so far. My T/A now it came with a mini on it and it does real good to so far, I'm not saying to go out and buy one and it will solve your problems but it has worked for me so far. You could go with a decent shield first and see how i does.JMO I am going to put a shield on both of my cars when i get a chance to be on the safe side. IMHO. And i know people that are still running the stock starters and they haven't had any problems yet that i know of.
Starters are like everything else in hotrodding everyone going to have different opinions and experiances but that's what i love about it. Alway's learning.

Cole
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:57 PM
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One more thing what do you have the timing set at ?


Cole
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:05 PM
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1970 >>>40 years ago it was a problem then.. Miss my 428 though

Back then we rolled up oven baking foil <real shiny on one side, and it helped. We fabricated grills to keep it off the housing with coat hangers on the block side. A small muffler clamp on the exhaust to float a double plate on the pipe side, wrapped on oven foil< cause it's shiny and can be replaced, rather than trying to clean something that loses it's shine.

If I had it to do again, I might look at some 4 or 5 inch Zero Clearance pipe to work with. Comes from an HVAC supply or a Gas place or maybe Home Depot.

Might get a bit of cool air via ducting somehow..

Pontiac was always like that.. Especially for the first five minutes after you shut it off at a parking meter. Do they still do the tick tick tick for 3 minutes after shutdown?

Yeah mini starter...
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloc431962
One more thing what do you have the timing set at ?


Cole
32 degrees
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duntov
Back then we rolled up oven baking foil <real shiny on one side, and it helped. We fabricated grills to keep it off the housing with coat hangers on the block side. A small muffler clamp on the exhaust to float a double plate on the pipe side, wrapped on oven foil< cause it's shiny and can be replaced, rather than trying to clean something that loses it's shine.

If I had it to do again, I might look at some 4 or 5 inch Zero Clearance pipe to work with. Comes from an HVAC supply or a Gas place or maybe Home Depot.

Might get a bit of cool air via ducting somehow..

Pontiac was always like that.. Especially for the first five minutes after you shut it off at a parking meter. Do they still do the tick tick tick for 3 minutes after shutdown?

Yeah mini starter...

Ive got Heat sheild cloth I use when insolating circle track racecars i could fab up a plate with some of that cloth on it but yea i think ill drop 150 for a good starter.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:57 PM
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warm starter woes

had the same problems on my steet rod.hard starting when warm. added a braided ground strap between bell housing and frame.clean all connections well. no more problems. the mini starters also solve many problems.lot more torque.braided ground straps can be found at auto wiring companys.this is good insurance .
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryf
had the same problems on my steet rod.hard starting when warm. added a braided ground strap between bell housing and frame.clean all connections well. no more problems. the mini starters also solve many problems.lot more torque.braided ground straps can be found at auto wiring companys.this is good insurance .
when i did the install i replaced all of the ground straps and cleaned all of the surfaces. I just think the starter is old.
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:44 PM
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Blah Blah Blah... get the mini

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryf
had the same problems on my steet rod.hard starting when warm. added a braided ground strap between bell housing and frame.clean all connections well. no more problems. the mini starters also solve many problems.lot more torque.braided ground straps can be found at auto wiring companys.this is good insurance .
All good stuff... If I'm thinking right the mini starters are PM motors, as compared to a factory starter which draws some percentage of the amperage to charge the field coils as well as the armature.

A PM or Permanent Magnet motor is naturally stronger pound for pound and not subject to generate as much heat internally...Also I believe they have a bit more clearance between the armature and field; less likely to drag the arm against the field, not to mention that they are mostly roller-born rather than bushed.
Also, the field, (being just a big machined magnet) , doesn't swell up closing the tolerance between itself and the armature, and dragging against it, even though some have partial coiled field.

I've used a lot of DC motors in light industrial projects, hobbies too, and I can attest to the fact that it takes a lot to kill one, including upping the voltage 200% or more to increase speed and power. For example a PM DC motor might typically be rated like 1HP@1200rpm@ 12v.
Another motor might be rated as @2HP@2400rpm@24v, and be almost exactly the same motor, sometimes just a different color and tag specs. Get much bigger though than 1hp@12v and the motors get expensive because the larger rare earth magnets are expensive. I don't see how they can sell PM starter for $150 unless it's really a 1hp@two volts getting with a short blast of 12v.

I built a machine which has a 1/2hp@12v@1500 which I run at times on 36V(roughly 4500rpm) for a hydraulic pump. I do that for speed and it's probably easier on the motor because it does it's job in less than one minute compared to 3 or 4 minutes which heats up the grease in the bearings.

That's a lot like a starter... You're hoping it starts in 1 or 2 seconds. If not and especially if it's an old Pontiac, the starter gets hotter by the second. My antique trucks still have 6v starters but with two 6v batteries, wired so only the starter gets 12volts.. Most guys my age and older I imagine will tell you that the starters lasted a lot longer like that, cause they would spin the snot out of the old 6s and start them before the starter climbed more than a few degrees F.

Blah Blah Blah, God I'm bored... Moral of the story if any, is get the mini... It's a Pontiac. ...Some Arctic Ponchoid might chime in with someone elses' different point of view,to which I might say phooey, or Hooey, not sure how to spell it.

Last edited by Duntov; 11-24-2010 at 08:55 PM. Reason: Needed more Blah Blah Blah.
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