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Old 12-21-2003, 11:26 PM
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I want an 8500 redline... how?

ok.
I'm building a 350 for my 70 malibu.
I want to be able to hit 7000rpm's and hold it there. Basically I'm wanting like a 8500 redline.
I know it's possible. I just don't know how to do it.
I'm building this engine from the ground up. and so far I only have a bare block. 350 4 bolt pre-86 style.
I've been given tips from a few people at work, but none of them have actually ever tried it. So I figured I'd ask and see if anybody here has a "know how" on this.
There is no limit to what I can and can't put in it. Just tell me the setup and it will be done.
Thank you
Todd
.
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Old 12-22-2003, 12:46 AM
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be thus prepared to spend some $$$
to start out with you`ll need a stout rotating assembly, forged crank, aftermarket rods, forged pistons, a complete stud kit.
After that you`ll need a good set of heads to handle the airflow requirements of high RPM, then a bullet proof valvetrain, since valve train dictates RPM limit with a iron hand. you`ll also need a good carb and a single plane intake, and a ignition system to handle high RPM such as a MSD or the like, a free flowing exhaust system, etc. If this is a daily driver street machine, i`d suggest you rethink your combo somewhat, a heavy car with a high revver you`ll have to gear it so low to make up for the loss of low end torque you won`t want to drive it long, the exhaust drone will drive you nuts and you won`t be able to go past a gas station without stopping.
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Old 12-22-2003, 01:14 AM
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Build a 377, that'll get you there.....
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Old 12-22-2003, 06:19 AM
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Sell your parts and call one of the Cup shops in Mooreville, NC. You need about 20K for a takeout bullet.
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Old 12-22-2003, 07:24 AM
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Like Double said, it takes the whole engine combination to get to extreme RPM, such as 8500. The main focus for turning this range of RPM is proper combination of intake, heads and headers.
Now, when you get into a camshaft selection, any cam designed to reach 8500 RPM will have absolutely no power under 4500 RPM. This vehicle would be a real pig on the street. It would be a bear to drive and would probably be whooped on by many "conservative" engine combinations that might only be capable of 6000 to 7000 RPM.
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Old 12-22-2003, 09:17 AM
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I will preface this by saying it is an assinine goal for anything other than an all out race engine trying to get 800 HP plus out of 350 cid.

If you did it, it would certainly take the biggest baddest heads you could find along with a bullet proof valve train. You would have to run a roller cam as well. The bottom end would need to be 4340 crank and long rods with lightwieght pistons like Wiesco, SRP(made by JE), or JE. Oh yeah, dont forget that there is no way a factory block will live at that rpm level. You will split the cylinders if the main webbing does not see catostrophic failure first. If you did try an oe block, it would need tall grout and billet splayed caps to even stand a chance. The tall grout takes it off the street. Another point is that V8's running that RPM are using large 4.1-4.2 inch bores with 3.2-3.3 range stroke with 6.125 inch rods. This is due to the fact that oem 350 specs just will not allow an engine to live at 8500 RPM.

First, I dont think you have the 15-20k it will take to build this engine, and second I dont think you have the knowledge to build or keep it together or a car on the road with such an engine.

Stick with a moderate 6500 RPM engine and you can keep your college fund in the bank. When you get to the point you can afford to build a bad to the bone race only engine, dig this idea back up. For now, bury it.

Chris
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Old 12-22-2003, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cstraub
Sell your parts and call one of the Cup shops in Mooreville, NC. You need about 20K for a takeout bullet.
Ditto.
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Old 12-22-2003, 09:28 AM
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The guys have given you some good and accurate advice. You should not set your goals by RPM alone. What are you trying to achieve with the car?

In order to run the RPM you listed you will need top dollar lower end parts (Callies, Cola, Crower), we are talking big $$.

You will need a very large solid roller cam (which will kill valve springs on the street ) you will be lucky if you can get two miles out of it on the street. Large solid roller cams are not made to idle (idle will be in the 2000-2500 range to begin with) and on the street you can't run around at 7000 RPMs all the time.

You would need very large heads which would make good power way up top but very little down low where you will need it in a heavy car. You will be breaking parts (engines) regularly. Remember, even with the best stuff money can buy Winston Cup cars are lucky to finish a 500 mile race. This is with dry sump oil systems and the works.

I am not sure where you got the idea but, if someone told you that was a good idea I wouldn't take advice from them anymore.

Get a goal (realistic) and I am sure we can help you get there. If you are dead set on spinning that kind of RPM constantly you will need to have several back up engines, cause you will be going through them like gas.
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Old 12-22-2003, 09:43 AM
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not that I recommend building something like that but here's a link for used cup parts.

http://www.musclemotorsports.com/index.html
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Old 01-25-2004, 02:53 AM
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A cheap way to accomplish your goals would be a nice performance rebuild and then when you are all done, set the little knob in the back off your tach on 4cyl.! Heck, then you could hit 7grand just merging with traffic on the interstate!
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Old 01-25-2004, 04:27 AM
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i would suggest an aftermarket block like a "motown" or other race prepared block, could possibly get that redline by building a 377, i got one in my monte carlo and i got a redline of 6500 and beleive me it's screaming at 5800, and as others have said you need a bullet proof valve train and stud kit, i have never tried to build one to this redline but you need to do some homework..talk to some of the respectable engine companies, i have found that they are willing to help and might be able to get you the parts you need..but it's gonna be expensive
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Old 01-25-2004, 04:57 AM
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engineczar had the ticket right there link to engine from muscle-motorparts the pricetag is around 12-15K depending on options, and i dont think you can build one for the same amount, sell your existing mill and chip inthe rest and you will be way happier with a proven 600 Hp 7000 rpm beast on pump gas....

and it comes with a warranty!
(here is a run down of the parts)

355 – 360 cubic inches Compression ratio 10:1 runs on “pump” gas
Block: Chevy BowTie, 4 Bolt Mains, Splayed Billet Caps
Pistons: Forged Aluminum Alloy, J&E or equal, Bore 4.125
Crank: Billet Sonny Bryant, Stroke 3.335, 37-45 lbs. 2.0 or 2.1 rod journals
Rods: Carrillo or Lentz 6.20” H beam. Carr Bolts
ATI Balancer
Heads: 18 Deg. CNC Ported Aluminum Chevy Cylinder Heads w/2.150 Titanium Intake Valves, 1.6000 St.St. exhaust valves, Comp Cams triple valve springs, Titanium retainers and keys, Copper Berylium Valve Seats, Heads Flow 330 cfm @ .700 lift.
Cast Aluminum Chevy Valve Covers, personalized for owner
Jesel shaft mounted roller rockers 1.65 ratio
Cam: Competition Cams Solid roller, 110 Deg. Centerline, Lift= 605 intake and exhaust, Duration 300 intake and exhaust
Lifters: Competition Cams true roller lifters
Wilson Intake manifold and Tapered 4 Hole Spacer 2.00" Part# 004150
Quick Fuel 750 cfm “Street Carb”
Oil System: wet sump: Milodan Internal Pump w/ competition sheetmetal pan
Oil System: dry sump, external pump Barnes or equal
Specifications subject to change (typical specs. may be adjusted for customer requirements)
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Old 01-25-2004, 08:25 PM
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It all depends on the parts you choose. I have a 358 (destroked 400) with Brodix 11X heads and a matched cam that makes 600 hp at 7800 rpm. I shift at between 7800 and 8000. That motor has a billet steel crank ($2300) and a set of billet aluminum rods($2200) and a dart little M block ($2000). The pistons are a set of Ross custom nitrous pistons. I would recommend a 358-377 with AFR 220cc or 227cc competition package heads and a matched solid roller cam with similar quality parts in your rotating assembly. A set of the comp package AFR heads are $2000. You could go with the race ready heads for $1300, but if you are really serious about your goal, I would go with the comp packages. For the long block you are going to be looking at around $9000-$10000. But if you have the money, go for it.

Good luck
Adam
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Old 01-25-2004, 11:06 PM
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is there a difference between running a motor at 8000rpm for like 30 seconds compared to running it up to 8000 and shifting. i bought a 64 nova that has a 350 in it. the guy i bought the car from built the motor while he worked at orange county engine shop in 1987. he said they built the engine to will stand 9000rpms probably not. i am not sure what the cam is but it is a solid flat tap with triple vavle springs. the power band tops out at about 6500 but i have shifted at 7500. i know he didn't put 10,000 into the motor because he was still in high school. i know the motor is balanenced but i don't know what any of the internal parts are. so what would be my red line and would be a rpm that i could run for extended periods?
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Old 01-25-2004, 11:27 PM
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how come ive been told a 283 can handle up to 8000rpm with a factory block? from the sound of it, it doesn't seem like it could handle it.
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