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Old 07-04-2013, 10:21 AM
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I want a T56

In this link it talks about multi shift locations.I still don't understand if that is true only on their aftermarket trannies or on all the T56's.


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Old 07-05-2013, 01:36 PM
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all T56s use an internal rail system to shift. by changing tailhousings, shifter blocks and shift levers, you can put the same basic transmission in a lot of vehicles.

The early Fbody T56 is essentially discontinued at this point. Parts are getting very expensive and the products are being produced once or twice a year by Tremec, in Mexico. My question is why a 6 speed. Its a huge transmission to put in most cars, although I know you can do it. A basic overhaul kit with factory parts will be in the 5-700 neighborhood. If you're using a carb, make sure you don't gear the rear too low numerically, or you'll find it hard to use 6th gear. If you gear the rear too high numerically, you'll find 1st gear will present some frustration. I dont often suggest TKOs, but that may be a better fit, or an Astro T5 gearset in a T5.
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:31 PM
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6th gear in a t-56 does not stand up well to a lot of HP. I use a TKO-600,it works good.Not the easiest to shift into 3rd. I use the .82 5th gear,some prefer the .68.look at them as a 5 speed or a 4speed with a big over drive
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
all T56s use an internal rail system to shift. by changing tailhousings, shifter blocks and shift levers, you can put the same basic transmission in a lot of vehicles.

The early Fbody T56 is essentially discontinued at this point. Parts are getting very expensive and the products are being produced once or twice a year by Tremec, in Mexico. My question is why a 6 speed. Its a huge transmission to put in most cars, although I know you can do it. A basic overhaul kit with factory parts will be in the 5-700 neighborhood. If you're using a carb, make sure you don't gear the rear too low numerically, or you'll find it hard to use 6th gear. If you gear the rear too high numerically, you'll find 1st gear will present some frustration. I dont often suggest TKOs, but that may be a better fit, or an Astro T5 gearset in a T5.
I think you and I spoke about T56's before and you suggested I not use one.Which based on your suggestion does make alot of sense.It's just everything I have built for the Astro has been for towing and cruising.The 383 going in it is just shy of 500 ft lbs of torque so the Astro T5's or even the WC T5's won't hold up against the being they are the same case.A creeper 1st gear for the towing part of it might not be a bad thing.Rear end ratio of 3.70's to 4.11's with a 29" tire is kind of what I'm thinking.I got this image in my mind of the 383 and T56 all set up in the sub frame ready to put into the van.Astro's have a one of a kind off-set so the off-set shifter will help.The main thing is to try to get the most forward shifter location as possible and which used T56 will do that for me and what models have that came in which car/trucks.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:53 PM
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Your skills as a fabricator and drivetrain designer are certainly capable of making this work. However, 6th gear in a T56 can have oiling issues and does NOT like to be heavily loaded as Vinny alluded to. Also the T56 has different shifter setbacks, but not much offset to the L or R. The problem you will have is you need an LT1 powered Camaro T56 with either a 3.36 1st or a 2.97 1st, to bolt up easily to the motor. This trans should have, or will require the following LT1-specific T56 parts: Bellhouse, the Front Adapter Plate (LT1), LT1 specific input (called a maindrive - Tremec PN 13-86-085-010), Clutch Fork, External Slave Cylinder, Slave Cylinder Mounting Bracket and the 'T'-nut which is the pivot for the fork. A lot of this stuff is being discontinued as the last LT1 T56 was produced in 1997 and production contracts are usually guaranteed for 10yrs after production. One of the places to get all this stuff is Hawks Third Generation; in Easley, SC. They do LS1 and LT1 conversions into 82-92 camaros and firebirds. We've redesigned some parts that GM let become discontinued, for Hawks, for these conversions.

I'll also tell you, I haven't seen a new LT1 input in 6mos, and we had to order 1000 3rd gear synchro rings in order to get them produced.

A similar option would be a "T56 Magnum" which is, thanks to the geniuses in marketing, NOT a T56 at all; its a new 6speed called the TR-6060, used in the current crop of camaros, mustangs and challengers etc. Its a bit larger in some dimensions, and its probably heavier; BUT, it has a product lifespan of probably close to 20yrs.

If you're going deep rear gear; Id suggest a TKO with the .82 5th (TKO's have multiple shift locations - forward, middle and rear - as it was originally designed for the mexican truck market to be used in vans, cab-overs, F350 sized trucks and was then addapted as the Tremec TR-3650 for the Mustang, and sold as the TKO for the hotrod market). It's essentially a Toploader Ford trans with an overdrive 5th - in fact it uses the same synchro rings.

You could go the other way. Get something like a Richmond (Doug Nash) 4+1 and use a DEEP 1st and a mild rear gear (5th is direct drive). Something like a 3.10 1st and a 3.23 rear gear.

What's the cruise RPM of your camshaft? You dont want to deviate too far from that in whatever high gear you choose.

A WC T5 with the Astro Performance (brand) guts will be the best fit, since there was a T5 astro from the factory. Your concern about the case is well founded, but Im not sure towing is the same stresses as launching a car at 5500rpm.
Im going to bug Dave Reed (Reed0380) and see if he'll jump in here as he builds a lot of those. Maybe S10xGN as well since he went down this road. Lastly I recommended a TKO, which is something I hardly ever do, I think Im ill. LOL

Last edited by AutoGear; 07-08-2013 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:23 PM
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Not sure I'd want a T-56 in anything with a 3.73 gear and 29" tires. 6th gear would be useless, 70mph would be only 1500rpm, lugging the engine.
For a T56 with 3.73 gears and 29" tires a 4.88 gear would give you a nice 70mph cruise at 1975rpm.

Also, cant he set something up to use 98-02 LS1 if someone had to?

peace
Hog
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:47 PM
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I know this is in a completely different direction, but if towing and cruising are your goals, why not consider an overdrive automatic. They can be built to handle the 500hp, have low first gears (plus torque multiplication), and overdrive. They can be set up with a cable shifter so you can locate your shifter pretty much anywhere you want.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
Your skills as a fabricator and drivetrain designer are certainly capable of making this work. However, 6th gear in a T56 can have oiling issues and does NOT like to be heavily loaded as Vinny alluded to. Also the T56 has different shifter setbacks, but not much offset to the L or R. The problem you will have is you need an LT1 powered Camaro T56 with either a 3.36 1st or a 2.97 1st, to bolt up easily to the motor. This trans should have, or will require the following LT1-specific T56 parts: Bellhouse, the Front Adapter Plate (LT1), LT1 specific input (called a maindrive - Tremec PN 13-86-085-010), Clutch Fork, External Slave Cylinder, Slave Cylinder Mounting Bracket and the 'T'-nut which is the pivot for the fork. A lot of this stuff is being discontinued as the last LT1 T56 was produced in 1997 and production contracts are usually guaranteed for 10yrs after production. One of the places to get all this stuff is Hawks Third Generation; in Easley, SC. They do LS1 and LT1 conversions into 82-92 camaros and firebirds. We've redesigned some parts that GM let become discontinued, for Hawks, for these conversions.

I'll also tell you, I haven't seen a new LT1 input in 6mos, and we had to order 1000 3rd gear synchro rings in order to get them produced.

A similar option would be a "T56 Magnum" which is, thanks to the geniuses in marketing, NOT a T56 at all; its a new 6speed called the TR-6060, used in the current crop of camaros, mustangs and challengers etc. Its a bit larger in some dimensions, and its probably heavier; BUT, it has a product lifespan of probably close to 20yrs.

If you're going deep rear gear; Id suggest a TKO with the .82 5th (TKO's have multiple shift locations - forward, middle and rear - as it was originally designed for the mexican truck market to be used in vans, cab-overs, F350 sized trucks and was then addapted as the Tremec TR-3650 for the Mustang, and sold as the TKO for the hotrod market). It's essentially a Toploader Ford trans with an overdrive 5th - in fact it uses the same synchro rings.

You could go the other way. Get something like a Richmond (Doug Nash) 4+1 and use a DEEP 1st and a mild rear gear (5th is direct drive). Something like a 3.10 1st and a 3.23 rear gear.

What's the cruise RPM of your camshaft? You dont want to deviate too far from that in whatever high gear you choose.

A WC T5 with the Astro Performance (brand) guts will be the best fit, since there was a T5 astro from the factory. Your concern about the case is well founded, but Im not sure towing is the same stresses as launching a car at 5500rpm.
Im going to bug Dave Reed (Reed0380) and see if he'll jump in here as he builds a lot of those. Maybe S10xGN as well since he went down this road. Lastly I recommended a TKO, which is something I hardly ever do, I think Im ill. LOL

Are you showing your car at the Syr PPG Nationals and if you are where would I find you to talk further???.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedanbob View Post
I know this is in a completely different direction, but if towing and cruising are your goals, why not consider an overdrive automatic. They can be built to handle the 500hp, have low first gears (plus torque multiplication), and overdrive. They can be set up with a cable shifter so you can locate your shifter pretty much anywhere you want.
Quick answer to your question is I have 2 700r4's for this project and I like shifting better.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:53 AM
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Are you showing your car at the Syr PPG Nationals and if you are where would I find you to talk further???.
My car won't be there; but I will. We (Auto Gear) will have a booth there (weather depending). If its a washout, Im not bringing $1,000 gearsets. Or I can PM you my cellphone number and we'll meet up somewhere (I live in Cicero and A-G is right by the 'Carousel Mall')

Nathan.



With regards to an LS1 trans swap, yes its possible if you use a QuickTime bellhousing and deal with the concentric slave cylinder setup; Problem is the last T56 in an FBody was 2002. Its 11 years old, what do you think is going to happen to it?

If this is a 500hp work truck, and you're not doing holeshots; I would use a NV3500. It had 2 different gear ratios I believe, One of which was a 3.50 1st with a 2.20 2nd gear, its designed for towing and has a .73 OD.
You can drive the van starting out in 2nd, and just use 1st as a crawler gear. Its OEM rating is 300ft lbs; however thats for a vehicle lifespan ie 60,000 miles. You can up the power over that, but expect the lifespan to drop by the same percentage.

If you put a heavy clutch and flywheel in front of this, or a really grippy clutch; you're most likely going to hurt something. Manual transmissions need some slip in the driveline, either the tires or the clutch.
Towing probably wont hurt this, but repeated hard launches in 1st will probably kill it.

edit:
NV3500 Close Ratio GM S/T Small Trucks & 2500 Light Duty Dodge Ram Truck Gearing:
1 3.49
2 2.16
3 1.40
4 1.00
5 0.73
R 3.55

Taken from Wikipedia
New Venture Gear 3500 transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:50 AM
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I have a NV3500 in my shop/d.d.'er truck.In my opinion it's just ok.I wouldn't expect it to hold up behind the 383.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:47 AM
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Id say TKO600

Heres a good link; pick your OD based on your camshaft cruising RPM; I do NOT know if heavy towing in 5th is a good idea or not
Hurst Driveline TKO 500/600 5-Speed Transmissions - JEGS

That link has a measured drawing. Note this may require a ford d/s yoke
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:28 AM
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Yes please do PM your cell number to me.I don't have a cell myself,but could call you from here before I left Roch which is about a 2 to 2.5 hr drive to the fairgrounds.We have been there many,many,times when Corkey Stockton from the Parts Peddler ran his auction for I think it was 17 yrs.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:30 PM
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[QUOTE=AutoGear;1692324]
With regards to an LS1 trans swap, yes its possible if you use a QuickTime bellhousing and deal with the concentric slave cylinder setup; Problem is the last T56 in an FBody was 2002. Its 11 years old, what do you think is going to happen to it?
QUOTE]

Depends on what is being done with the transmission, same as any other transmission that has been suggested, unless its being ordered brand new in the box.

Sounds like he wants a trans that'll take some hard use.

peace
Hog
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:35 PM
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I am taking the advise given and trying to figure out how to apply it to the commitment I have to using a 6 speed.Maybe a over looked mod to a T56.When I am on the road it is alot of middle of the night on RT 80 or 90 cruising with the semi's.
The torque curve on the build plan for this 383 was worked on by Pat McCarthy,Richard(Techinspector I),and my self and as it stands it is pretty much all in by 3,500 with a hp peak at 4,500 to 5,000.As it stood then the game plan was to a 700R4,Ford 9" and as I said 3.70's rear end gear with a 29" tire.Now wanting the 6 speed,the power curve can be adjusted with a different head/cam/EFI approach.One thing I need to add to this thread is these Astro's are heavy(abit over 4,000lbs)with the areo of pushing a pc of plywood down the road.Also the main priority is towing,but I do also want to have fun with it on the road when either trailers are not hooked to it.No drag race use on the track,maybe some street light fun through.

Now I do have a copy of a guy who got in deep into a conversion of a Astro T5 to a WC T5 and had a ton of money invested with limited success.Been told those T5's rating is only 170lbs of torque by multi sources.He too has a 383 in his van.I was told to try a Allison trans and I am aware of TCI's 6 speed auto as well Gear vendor's overdrive.Still I want a 6 speed stick shift without spending Richmond money to get it.I should say one trailer is about 3,000 loaded and the other one has a capacity of 7,000 with four wheel electric brakes.Rarely loaded to that level.I don't mind down shifting for some of the hills on RT 80.
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