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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
a 100hp honda? They've been way past that since the 80's. Most manufacturers passed the 1.2hp/ci on their 4 cylinders in the late 80's, and have been past it ever since.


Obviously some people haven't touched a car made after 1973- nothing wrong with that- but realize your concepts are WAY out of date.
AGAIn.. please list these 4cyl n/a engines making the power you say..
car 4cyl not a high strung bike 4 banger that is junk in 10k miles
news flash a 2ltr 4cyl making 110hp isn't a powerhouse

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
AGAIn.. please list these 4cyl n/a engines making the power you say..
car 4cyl not a high strung bike 4 banger that is junk in 10k miles
news flash a 2ltr 4cyl making 110hp isn't a powerhouse
Here's an easy one that you should know of being a American car fan- 1991 Olds 2.3L 190hp na. Roughly 1.4hp/ci

Ford's Zetec engine was at 170hp for 2.0L (2002-2004), again roughly 1.4hp/ci.

Ad dodge had the ECC 2.0L at 150hp in 1996, which is only at 1.24- so maybe you're a dodge guy?

Again, all of these are STOCK and DOMESTIC engines. throw on some aftermarket parts and you're past the 1.5hp/ci limit and still very streetable and reliable.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
look a 20k superstocker engine... not a throw 700.oo eagle 331 kit in it and go 302
We are in a conversation about High rpm!and its floating away from the origanel question ! Where in the hell do you get 20,000 dollars! You live on the moon! its: " Stock 1968 cast heads no porting, stock springs & rockers, stock Z 28 intake or comparable, 1 780 carb, Gm 30 over pistons, Its a 480 lift solid flat tappet Crane cam not expensive at all, Etc Etc nothing exotic!!! Its not that expensive For a guy to build one. the block and bottom end aren't that hard either or that expensive: an after market short stroke steal forged crank or a stock steel small journal Balanced!

Some of the high school kid in the 60's could do it! I built destroked engines while in high school! I don't see why someone now cant!!! Its nothing exotic!!! Mostly hands on labor polishing and balancing and sticking to a good blue print! Its not much more expensive then building a good factory stock engine If you have no ability to do anything yourself! That's why I posted it, its not hard or needing exotic parts!Everything must be to exact specs and balancing, or harmonics will destroy it at high rpm!!

Have you ever built an engine? Or you get your info out of magazines!

I asked in another post "HOW OLD ARE YOU"

I think AP72 is right!



Jester
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
Here's an easy one that you should know of being a American car fan- 1991 Olds 2.3L 190hp na. Roughly 1.4hp/ciquad 4, unreliable short lived, 442 engine

Ford's Zetec engine was at 170hp for 2.0L (2002-2004), again roughly 1.4hp/ci. another unreliable short lived engine set up

Ad dodge had the ECC 2.0L at 150hp in 1996, which is only at 1.24- so maybe you're a dodge guy?

Again, all of these are STOCK and DOMESTIC engines. throw on some aftermarket parts and you're past the 1.5hp/ci limit and still very streetable and reliable.
all warrant nightmares that they pulled the plug on because they are/where unreliable..... like a few said 1.2 hp/cid is about where the reliablity goes south..
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:22 PM
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the honda 2000 made 240 horse power on its debut. thats about 1.6 hp per cube,N.A. and the newer ones make more power.The M3 BMW makes a lot. The 283 fuelie made 1.1 h p per cube back in 1962.

all those engines revved to 7k or more.
When you pass 8k rpm harmonics cause problems but dont stop the engines from revving.A short stroke engine will rev 7k with out a doubt.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by painted jester View Post

Have you ever built an engine? Or you get your info out of magazines!

I asked in another post "HOW OLD ARE YOU"

I think AP72 is right!



Jester
nope never touch them

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 09:51 PM
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 09:55 PM
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Hehttp://www.hotrodders.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68567&stc=1&d=13510509 14y

me too
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:03 PM
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now find the row of f bodys.. good luck.. both photo's came from same camera
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
now find the row of f bodys.. good luck.. both photo's came from same camera


I agree with you
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/atta...1&d=1351052733
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
American's use long stroke big piston low rpm v8s. ferrari and other high rpm engine use shorter stokes and higher piston speed to make more power. 1.5 covers higher output v8 like bmw, merc but 1.2 is very fair for road use.

You cant make more power without higher piston speed, more displacement or boost. Nothing else makes any difference at all sep where things were built with a restriction of some type.

looked at another way 2 hp per ci would mean a stock 5.0 litre ford mustang from 1989 would make 604hp. or a 350 would be 700 hp.


A short stroke engine has a slower piston speed moving up and down the cylinder then a long stroke engine running at the same rpm is what I think you meant to say! the formula is: Piston speed ft. per min.= (stroke in inches x rpm)/6

Jester

Last edited by painted jester; 10-23-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by zildjian4life218 View Post
Okay so I consider myself still a newbie when it comes to the hotrodding world we all love so I am coming to you for input. My buddy has a foxbody that he road races and is looking for more power. His dad told him that he can get a 331ci $700 eagle rotating assembly and put it in a "boss" 302 block with some certain head and it will make 450hp (which I could understand) but he then said and spin it 9-10k rpm all day long with no problems.... I feel as though this is..... well seems like rather out of reach assuming its probably a cast crank with steel i beam rods and hypereutectic pistons but hey I could be wrong... it has happened before and im sure its not the last. Can someone with more experience as me chime in on this? I just wanna know how far off the road I am or am not.
You are right! It takes a lot of rocket science by the time an engine starts getting into the mid 6000 RPM catagory. This just goes crazy about 7000 RPM and CRAIZER above that point.

Structural strength of the block, crankshaft, rods and pistons becomes a huge issue not so much from the 450 hp thought that drives you to a lot of stuff made from 4340 steel like the crank and rods, high quality forged pistons with lightened tool steel floating pins, internal balance, very expensive dampers like the Rattler or Fluid Damper (cannot use the latter on NASCAR tracks because of imbalance issues after hot soaking). This would take ported aftermarket heads to feed the CFM requirements with a pretty exotic valve train to track the cam at those RPMs. Basically from 7000 RPM up you've got to dry sump the engine as the windage gets to be such a power limiter, you've got to put the crankcase under a continious vacuum and you've got to remove the oil that isn't in the galleys. Removal gives the oil time to rest and degass inside the crankcase it gets mixed with the air and gasses in there which actally makes a stiff brown mousse that is several times more viscus than the pure oil, this will cavitate in the pump and within the bearing clearances quickly destroying both pump and bearings followed by a massive engine failure as the bottom end comes out. All 4-bolt mains and crank girdles are not only necessay to keep the bottom end ridged enough that wandering dimension changes won't cause enough distortion to blow the engine, but another unadvertised purpose they serve is to bust up the rotating assembly is a failure does happen to soak up some of the energy to where the crank assembly isn't sailing about the track till its energy is used up. So dry sumping is used to extra capacity with storage away from the rotating mass to give the oil time to vent off before going back into the engine among other things.

So yes you can build a cheap high RPM engine by just buying a radical cam, stuff springs and some top end and exhaust goodies, but without the rocket science everywhere else it won't be together for long.

Bogie
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