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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
What the hell does torque have to do with anything?
What the hell is "a 3ltr v12 needs 8900rpm" about?

For an engine that makes more than 1.2hp/ci NA you can look at almost any OEM 4 cylinder built in the last decade, and a lot of V6's and V8's. For power in excess of 1.5hp/ci you can look at almost any 4 cylinder motorcycle engine built in the last 4 decades.

And almost all of those come with factory warranties.
Yeah bikes dont come with 100k warranties sport bike usally alot less. 24k miles is the norm for bikes. Also the engine is toast at 24k with the piston speed they run bearing rings pistons rods everything is stressed to the max. If you ride a bike wide open all the time it can be worn out at 6k miles.

Honda civic is agreed by all to be kinda sporty and a strong running engine. So 1650 cc's equals 100 ci they make 100 hp. Thats less than 1.2 its 1-1

Its all about cylinder pressure and rpm. The physics of objects in motion. There is no way around it. You must raise one and both shorten engine life. So not too many engines will ever go past that point unless they can run a fuel that has a higher btu value its not going to change. Cheaper forgings is the only reasons you will see an engine any higher then 1.2.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 04:23 PM
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The Old Reliable:

Keystone Nationals, Maple Grove, PA.
TECHNICAL DATA
VIN number 124378N411100
Build Date 04A (first week of April)
Color Corvette Bronze
Interior Code 712, black standard
Car Shipper Shipped on April 11, 1968 to Ammon R. Smith Auto Company, York, PA
Engine Data Cubic Inches, 302
Cylinder heads #3917291, completely stock, no porting allowed!
Stock rocker arms & valve springs
Intake 302 aluminum intake, casting #3917610
Carburetor Holley, #4053, 780 CFM 4bbl
Camshaft Crane, .480 inches lift, 272 degrees duration, valve lash, .016-.016
Pistons GM 302, .030" oversize
Horsepower 456 @7700rpm
Rear Tires 9" x 30.0" Hoosier's
Rear axle & ratio 12-bolt, 5.57 Richmond Pro Gears
Clutch 10 inch, three finger from Advance Clutch Technology
Shift Points 8200 RPM
BEST ET 10.80 @122.30mph

Jester
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester View Post
The Old Reliable:

Keystone Nationals, Maple Grove, PA.
TECHNICAL DATA
VIN number 124378N411100
Build Date 04A (first week of April)
Color Corvette Bronze
Interior Code 712, black standard
Car Shipper Shipped on April 11, 1968 to Ammon R. Smith Auto Company, York, PA
Engine Data Cubic Inches, 302
Cylinder heads #3917291, completely stock, no porting allowed!
Stock rocker arms & valve springs
Intake 302 aluminum intake, casting #3917610
Carburetor Holley, #4053, 780 CFM 4bbl
Camshaft Crane, .480 inches lift, 272 degrees duration, valve lash, .016-.016
Pistons GM 302, .030" oversize
Horsepower 456 @7700rpm
Rear Tires 9" x 30.0" Hoosier's
Rear axle & ratio 12-bolt, 5.57 Richmond Pro Gears
Clutch 10 inch, three finger from Advance Clutch Technology
Shift Points 8200 RPM
BEST ET 10.80 @122.30mph

Jester
look a 20k superstocker engine... not a throw 700.oo eagle 331 kit in it and go 302
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:23 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Yeah bikes dont come with 100k warranties sport bike usally alot less. 24k miles is the norm for bikes. Also the engine is toast at 24k with the piston speed they run bearing rings pistons rods everything is stressed to the max. If you ride a bike wide open all the time it can be worn out at 6k miles.

Honda civic is agreed by all to be kinda sporty and a strong running engine. So 1650 cc's equals 100 ci they make 100 hp. Thats less than 1.2 its 1-1

Its all about cylinder pressure and rpm. The physics of objects in motion. There is no way around it. You must raise one and both shorten engine life. So not too many engines will ever go past that point unless they can run a fuel that has a higher btu value its not going to change. Cheaper forgings is the only reasons you will see an engine any higher then 1.2.
a 100hp honda? They've been way past that since the 80's. Most manufacturers passed the 1.2hp/ci on their 4 cylinders in the late 80's, and have been past it ever since.


Obviously some people haven't touched a car made after 1973- nothing wrong with that- but realize your concepts are WAY out of date.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
a 100hp honda? They've been way past that since the 80's. Most manufacturers passed the 1.2hp/ci on their 4 cylinders in the late 80's, and have been past it ever since.


Obviously some people haven't touched a car made after 1973- nothing wrong with that- but realize your concepts are WAY out of date.
AGAIn.. please list these 4cyl n/a engines making the power you say..
car 4cyl not a high strung bike 4 banger that is junk in 10k miles
news flash a 2ltr 4cyl making 110hp isn't a powerhouse
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:48 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
AGAIn.. please list these 4cyl n/a engines making the power you say..
car 4cyl not a high strung bike 4 banger that is junk in 10k miles
news flash a 2ltr 4cyl making 110hp isn't a powerhouse
Here's an easy one that you should know of being a American car fan- 1991 Olds 2.3L 190hp na. Roughly 1.4hp/ci

Ford's Zetec engine was at 170hp for 2.0L (2002-2004), again roughly 1.4hp/ci.

Ad dodge had the ECC 2.0L at 150hp in 1996, which is only at 1.24- so maybe you're a dodge guy?

Again, all of these are STOCK and DOMESTIC engines. throw on some aftermarket parts and you're past the 1.5hp/ci limit and still very streetable and reliable.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
look a 20k superstocker engine... not a throw 700.oo eagle 331 kit in it and go 302
We are in a conversation about High rpm!and its floating away from the origanel question ! Where in the hell do you get 20,000 dollars! You live on the moon! its: " Stock 1968 cast heads no porting, stock springs & rockers, stock Z 28 intake or comparable, 1 780 carb, Gm 30 over pistons, Its a 480 lift solid flat tappet Crane cam not expensive at all, Etc Etc nothing exotic!!! Its not that expensive For a guy to build one. the block and bottom end aren't that hard either or that expensive: an after market short stroke steal forged crank or a stock steel small journal Balanced!

Some of the high school kid in the 60's could do it! I built destroked engines while in high school! I don't see why someone now cant!!! Its nothing exotic!!! Mostly hands on labor polishing and balancing and sticking to a good blue print! Its not much more expensive then building a good factory stock engine If you have no ability to do anything yourself! That's why I posted it, its not hard or needing exotic parts!Everything must be to exact specs and balancing, or harmonics will destroy it at high rpm!!

Have you ever built an engine? Or you get your info out of magazines!

I asked in another post "HOW OLD ARE YOU"

I think AP72 is right!



Jester
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
a 100hp honda? They've been way past that since the 80's. Most manufacturers passed the 1.2hp/ci on their 4 cylinders in the late 80's, and have been past it ever since.


Obviously some people haven't touched a car made after 1973- nothing wrong with that- but realize your concepts are WAY out of date.
My 94 made 90 stock and my 97 made 110 stock newer 1.7 make about the same with a little better torque in basic form. Look it up d16y7. My 97 is turbo with large intercooler and t3/t4. Its not something you could buy at the dealer. And some of the engines you mentioned are some of the biggest pos in four banger history.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
Here's an easy one that you should know of being a American car fan- 1991 Olds 2.3L 190hp na. Roughly 1.4hp/ciquad 4, unreliable short lived, 442 engine

Ford's Zetec engine was at 170hp for 2.0L (2002-2004), again roughly 1.4hp/ci. another unreliable short lived engine set up

Ad dodge had the ECC 2.0L at 150hp in 1996, which is only at 1.24- so maybe you're a dodge guy?

Again, all of these are STOCK and DOMESTIC engines. throw on some aftermarket parts and you're past the 1.5hp/ci limit and still very streetable and reliable.
all warrant nightmares that they pulled the plug on because they are/where unreliable..... like a few said 1.2 hp/cid is about where the reliablity goes south..
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:22 PM
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the honda 2000 made 240 horse power on its debut. thats about 1.6 hp per cube,N.A. and the newer ones make more power.The M3 BMW makes a lot. The 283 fuelie made 1.1 h p per cube back in 1962.

all those engines revved to 7k or more.
When you pass 8k rpm harmonics cause problems but dont stop the engines from revving.A short stroke engine will rev 7k with out a doubt.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by painted jester View Post

Have you ever built an engine? Or you get your info out of magazines!

I asked in another post "HOW OLD ARE YOU"

I think AP72 is right!



Jester
nope never touch them

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 09:51 PM
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 09:55 PM
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Hehttp://www.hotrodders.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68567&stc=1&d=13510509 14y

me too
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:03 PM
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now find the row of f bodys.. good luck.. both photo's came from same camera
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
now find the row of f bodys.. good luck.. both photo's came from same camera


I agree with you
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/atta...1&d=1351052733
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