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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:42 PM
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skittish

if you think it's the p/s pump pressure, get a shorter belt and bypass the pump. see if it gets better. you might want to do that on a back road somewhere. you may be right about the pressure issue. I haven't got my project together yet but they tell me that with a ford rack and a gm pump i will need a pressure reducer valve and to set the caster to more.
good luck
dsraven

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:54 PM
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I don't understand the shorter belt idea......if you remove it from the pump...........................................wha t then-----------------------------------------.you will have manual steering, that won't do any good dsraven.Or am i missing the point??????????? bob s
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:05 PM
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Thanks for the update Bob

dsraven - Remove power steering pump belt???? How does that help???? OK to diagnose a power steering problem but this is an alignment problem.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:07 PM
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Yeah, but think of how ripped you'll be after a couple months of that!
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:59 PM
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pump

if you take the pump out of the equation then you will be running manual steering.so it would make sense that if the skittish is gone with no power steering boost, then you can't be too far off with the alignment. if it is still skittish, then it is likely an alignment problem. when you take the boost pressure away from a power steering box it is actually worse than manual steering because usually they have different gear ratio's and different sized steering wheels. that is why I said to do it on a back road because you would have (worse than) manual steering. you could also try a different size pulley on the pump or the crank (if that belt drives the power steering only) to slow the pump speed down a little.
on the set up of the box, take a count of how many turns it is lock to lock from all the way right to all the way left. then centre the box. so if it was 4 turns lock to lock, start at one lock, and turn the steering wheel 2 turns. so it is in the middle of it's travel cycle. now check your wheels and see if they are pointing straight ahead.that is one of the first things an alignment guy should do. now check the gear lash in the box. the gears in a steering box are actually cut different. the gears are made to be tighter in the middle of the steering travel cycle. so when the wheels are straight ahead the steering is tight and there is less chance of being skittish, then as you move farther away from centre it gets looser in the gears, so it is easier for the caster and kingpin inclination (they call it that even if you don't have kingpins) to bring the wheels back to the centre again. if you notice, when you turn hard the steering wheel tries to come back to centre by itself. it stands to reason then, that if the gearbox is loose when it is in the middle of it's travel cycle, that steering would be more prone to being skittishbecause of the looseness. not that much different than a loose tie rod end. also, if the box isn't centred in it's cycle when the wheels are straight ahead then it is going to mess with more than just the vehicle turning harder one way than the other. always adjust the box with the box centred, then adjust the tie rods etc to get the wheels where they should be. if you have a rebuilt box it could be that the gears have already worn into themselves from previous use and they could be hard to set up because you would be moving them out of their little wear groove. I know, rebuilt should have been checked for that, but.....sometimes ****happens. it could also be the valving in the steering box being to "light" causing steering to be too easy, or as some say, "has no feel". it could be that the box was originally set up for a vehicle that was heavier than what you have, so the valving could be different causing it to be overly sensitve.
if this makes no sense, just disregard and carry on. not trying to confuse you, just pointing out a few things to check that can cause problems.
good luck,
dsraven
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:14 AM
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dsraven-This all makes sense.I don't know how to thank you for this input.I am really glad i run into you. This mesage you just sent-actually opens up a new page for me on this 77 f-150 box.None of this was ever considered by me,As i getoolder i miss some points more than i used too. gain thank you for this info. I have guys tearing my kitchen apart today do to a dishwasher ''flood-- i will have de humidifers running for a week to dry things out.But about the next wednesday i'll get back on this new info you sent. When i get a fe more things checked out on this list i wil get back let you know what i found.

The steering ..does feel as you say. like its not steering---------- or no feel of the steering is experinced.And i know the stering was not centered for one reason or another.This also is the second rebuilt box i have been sent.I was told along the way,-there is no such thing as a completely rebuilt box. just seals and other smaller parts are installed. how true----is anybodys guess. thanks ds raven. for all your time. I may need you again if thats OK?????????? bob s please forgive typos .
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:44 AM
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steering

Bob,
don't worry about the typo's, I am typing with my left hand. due to surgery on my right shoulder my arm is in a sling, so I know what the backspace key looks like.
hopefully you can get the water thing all sorted out and have some spare time to look at the steering. like I was explaining and you were saying, the rebuild boxes don't all get the same treatment, and are probably not gonna get new gears, so you are stuck with whatever is in the gearcase. it is important to get the box centred though before you mess around with other stuff. do you happen to have a pic of what the linkage system looks like? is there an adjustable drag link in the system that you could make longer or shorter to help centre the box when the wheels are straight?
if you have questions just fire them out there, we'll see what we can do.
dsraven
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:30 AM
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Theres a complete fatman fabrications front suspension under it. drag links steering bars and has a center block and an idler arm. The tie rods can all be adjust out or in.from center or from the ends.If ican get a good shot today, or soon i'l post it. again thank you for your concern most definitley a blessing
bob s!
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2011, 01:02 PM
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I was thinking the stock Ford buggy sprung axles were like 6-7 degrees king pin inclination (caster).
I'm not sure how they rebuild those Ford boxes, I have been inside several and the pitman shaft bushing is just machined into the housing, there is nothing you can replace unless they machine the housing out and install a bushing or torrington bearing like chevys use. I have seen those rebuild kits that just replace one of the spacers in the pitman seal stack with one that is the size of the pitman shaft. It does tighten them up for a while but you basically have a pitman shaft bushing that is about 1/4 inch thick. They don't last long.
Also I think the toe in setting is a bit different if you are running bias ply rather than radials. IIRC bias ply tires like a little more toe in that radials. It isn't hard to set that yourself and experiment a little, no sense paying an alignment shop $100 to do it.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2011, 01:14 PM
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This a big- old long, sector- shaft f-150 box from a 77 ford truck, its as fatmans ueses this box for their kits, for the 49-51 mercurys.If i could find a different box.with close to the same mounting demensions and over all length. i would give it a lot of thought before i dismissed it.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2011, 04:58 PM
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I checked most all the things dsraven mentioned. Drove it down the road, and still has that little bit of slack.called; "driving the kar all the time".I will eventually stumble upon it, but hey its been 3 weeks, i can go on if need be. Unless the right guy comes along with the right money. naaawww jus gettin mentally exhausted.I guess anymore ideas out there??????????? disgruntled ------------------------
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:36 PM
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Sorry Bob I think we covered it all. I got no more ideas.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:18 AM
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steering

what about the rag joint
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2011, 05:26 AM
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No rag joint....and thanks all. I think we did cover it all,case being.........I myself haven't covered it all , or i'd have it repaired.see ya later. somewhere else .bob s
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:52 AM
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Being as how this box was apart for rebuilding, it would have been bench-adjusted for worm gear bearing preload and sector shaft engagement. I'd at least check the adjustments to be sure they were done correctly.
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