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-   -   i'm in a quandry. pontiac or caddy engine (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/im-quandry-pontiac-caddy-engine-207041.html)

bullheimer 10-13-2011 10:18 PM

i'm in a quandry. pontiac or caddy engine
 
i have had this 67 lemans for years now. tried to sell it for three, it's a rolling chassis and is in my album. same with my moms 70 caddy 4 door.

my 400 motor has new short block, flywheel, water pump, heads at the machine shop where nothing is getting done, and a 4 speed. the lemans is a four speed car. it needs about everything. no front seats, no engine front wiring harness. just all good sheet metal except windscreen bottoms. it would take alot to get it running. no distributor, oil pump, all that stuff.

my moms car has a trashed front suspension from hitting curbs. the inside is great but no one will even buy it for $800! a running good 472. a company makes mounts for my lemans for $150 and a new oil pan and pump will put it, and the i think turbo 400, into the lemans. it will smoke the 400 as the build isn't all that rad. the pistons are just stock rebuild items, and i still have to get a valve job finished. have a carb and intake tho.

the 472 is and would stay stock and not taken apart. as is.

should i put it in or keep building the 400. i also need a clutch and pressure plate. and there is no driveline either, and i dont know anything about the rear end.

i want the lemans to be a stipped down 70's street racer with the sheet metal door panels and dash, and cheap bucket seats. rowing gears seems to be the only way to go, but i am tired of waiting and waiting for money to put this together. i guess either way will be about the same amount of money, so i guess if i have to shift then i answered the question right there.

it's just that with a caddy you can't wind it up anyway and when i told the caddy guy it was just temporary he said yeah, until you put in the 400, then you will rip it right back out. well maybe then i can find a bellhousing for a 472.

just talking to myself again, but would appreciate anybodys thoughts on this. i also have a 455 engine core laying around that needs everything as well. the 400 is also a 67 like the car, but i heard no lemanses came with my 400's heads only firebirds, (which they came out of), so it wouldn't help it be a numbers matching anything. and i dont give a crap about restoring it, anyway. or the caddy either since it's a four door and the front end work it needs and other stuff is expensive for no extra resale. i also don't have any exhaust pipes or manifolds for either except the caddy which are stock.
i kinda think the rear seat of the caddy will fit in the lemans. who knows. both bodies are rust free.
i could strip the caddy and gut it i spoze. wonder what it would weigh. if i did the front end work myself the parts probably wouldn't kill me either.

your thoughts? (got caddy pics in my album too). maybe strip and gut the caddy and keep the lemans? can't sell either one. could get more scrapping the caddy almost.

V8&4spd 10-13-2011 10:33 PM

I think your biggest problem would be finding a manual transmission flywheel that will work on the Cadilac engine. Most Cadilacs came with a auto transmission. The Pontiac bellhousing should bolt right up to the Cadilac.

bullheimer 10-13-2011 10:42 PM

hmmm. i just found this: http://www.hotrod.com/eventcoverage/...e_drag_weight/

it's somewhat about HotRods Caddy Hack article. they took the entire body off the car and it STILL weighed in at 2900 pounds. unfortunately, it only ran 13.5 at the quarter mile..... hardly seems worth the effort to getta 13 second ride. maybe trade them both in for a new car and i could go 13's out of the showroom. too bad i only gots BAD CREDIT. OH WELL that at least answers my question. i would have to keep the body on anyway so it will still be a real turd. so i am just talking about what to do with the lemans now.

i have a pontiac bell housing and flywheel. but i am not adverse to driving it with the caddy's automatic for as long as it takes to get a pontiac motor done. or whatever i end up doing. i would guess that with me in it my stripped lemans as is, would weigh almost 2900 lbs running. pushing it around sans engine and trans it seems light as a feather. bucket seats and carpet can't make it that much heavier.

http://image.hotrod.com/f/10024401+w...ts_off_car.jpg

Can you Imagine this pig only runs 13's???? ugh! and i live in seattle, picture the driver holding an umbrella over his head! :thumbup:

LATECH 10-14-2011 05:18 PM

put the poncho motor in the poncho. The caddy motor would make a good torque monster for a budget monster truck/swamp truck, should pull the 44 s you will want on it :thumbup:

eloc431962 10-14-2011 07:06 PM

I would go with the poncho engine also. :thumbup:



Cole
:pimp:

gonefishin' 10-14-2011 07:27 PM

http://image.hotrod.com/f/10024401+w...ts_off_car.jpg

Can you Imagine this pig only runs 13's???? ugh! and i live in seattle, picture the driver holding an umbrella over his head! :thumbup:[/QUOTE]

We built cars like this to run in the groves with. Called them skeeters. Used super wide rims w/ maypops aired up to abut 10 or 12 pound air to get thru the sand.

Why does this thing still look like a Caddy to me? Kinda funny.

1957plymouthhemi 10-15-2011 05:30 AM

Kind of a tough one. I sold my 81 Firebird that had a strong running earlier 400 a few months back and my current driver is an 83 El Camino with a stock rebuilt 500 Cadillac in it.

I really enjoyed the 400 in the Pontiac, it had a lot of the same traits as the Cadillac; lots of low end torque, reliable and relatively speaking decent economy. Neither engine in stock form really winds up to tight.

Personally I like the idea of the 400 and 4 speed…..it’s just a fun combination. You can also add Tri-Power to it which I’ve always had a soft spot for. Even as a non-original unrestored car it would probably be worth more with a Pontiac motor in it.

The torque on the 400 is impressive (for the displacement), but nothing compared to the big inch Cadillacs. Like the Cadillac guy you talked to indicated, I think if you go the 472 route I think you will be disappointed if you go back to the 400.

If you go the Caddy route at a minimum you will want to replace the stock nylon timing chain set and put a set of valve seals in it, while you’re there put in a set of decent springs and the engine will be able to go to 5000 RPM. With the right gear set (3.00-3.50 range) 5000 will be plenty.

bullheimer 10-18-2011 12:55 AM

wow, i'm kindof amazed. but since you have had the best of both worlds, how can i argue with experience? if i did caddyshack i would not want to touch it at all. if it has a nylon timing chain, i am again surprised, but i know they are junk, esp since the one in mine would be 41 years old now!!!! not a recipe for a hot rod. mo like a bent rod. i haven't told the guy to stop working on my heads, i guess i'll just let him finish.

but what to do with a sedan nobody wants.... :(

1957plymouthhemi 10-18-2011 07:30 AM

".....if it has a nylon timing chain, i am again surprised, but i know they are junk, esp since the one in mine would be 41 years old now!!!!...."


This is just part of what came out of the oil screen on my 73 500 when I tore it down....just sayin LOL

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...tom/debris.jpg

bullheimer 10-18-2011 09:36 AM

yeah, i've seen that before in engines, but it's been awhile.

any chance a 1970, three years older, 472, would not have used one? not like it matters.

starnest 10-18-2011 11:46 AM

I gotta go with:

Put the 400 Pontiac in the LeMans.

Part/scrap the Caddy to buy parts for the Pontiac

No matter what (unless you add a blower - that would be cool :cool: ), the Lemans w/cad power will be the unwanted stepchild :( .

bullheimer 10-18-2011 10:12 PM

it's lookin that way....


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