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Incandesent Light Bulb Ban

21K views 90 replies 27 participants last post by  SuthnCustoms 
#1 ·
Our government has once again deemed what is best for the general public.
They have decided (some time ago) that incandesent light bulbs are not energy wise and that they should ban them from being sold.This is being done to force the manufacturers to create better more efficient bulbs for americans to use (yeah right , and 134 a was supposed to fix the ozone too remember)
However california has banned the sale of 100 watt bulbs allready leading the way for the rest of the nation as of 2012. After that anything above a 40 watt will be outlawed in 2014. Some decorative bulbs (22 alltogether) will be an exception as far as I know, but untill when I dont know.
This is not to say you cant buy a 100 watt bulb, but it wont be a energy hog like an old thomas edison designed incandesent. It may be a halogen or a LED ( not cheap).
NOW, all that being said a lot of people are stocking up around here as some of them think you wont be able to buy any incandesent bulb of any wattage , wich is probably due to bad information, you know second hand, heard it from so and so.... My point is only to get everyone to do a little homework on the subject so you are not all caught off gaurd when the legislation is in effect.
In shop lights the rough service incandesents are kinda pricey anyhow and they melt plastic covers and the metal ones burn the skin , so we are using the spiral flouresecent bulbs at 13 bucks a piece. They are a little more exspensive but they dont get hot and the light they give is actually quite good.I drop mine a lot and they handle the abuse well.
Not that I am in favor of 50 dollar light bulbs but this is one place I have to say I prefer the flourescent bulbs.
I will be stocking up on bulbs for the house but we dont use anything larger than a 60 watt bulb so I have time to get to the store.
It might pay to look at the alternatives and costs long term and short term to see wich direction you want to go.Maybe it is time to stock up on light bulbs like guys did with R 12. ;)
 
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#52 ·
gow589 said:
I will NEVER understand the government telling em I cannot buy a pice of glass with a wire in it, but must instead buy glass with mercury in it!!


The amount of energy saved by eliminating old style bulbs is staggering and that is why they are being mandated out of existence, it simply would not happen any other way. As far as the Mercury pollution problem the anti-CFL crowd likes to push, well that just goes back to the "big picture" and the fact that the extra coal that would be required to keep those wasteful bulbs burning would dump more Mercury into the environment than the small amount in the bulbs. Coal is still a big factor in energy production in this country and is likely to remain so for a long time and it is estimated that thousands of tons of coal and the pollution it causes will be eliminated by switching to CFLs.


The local power company did a demo here not long ago with a bicycle powered generator and a series of light bulbs, the purpose of which was to demonstrate just how wasteful conventional lighting is. A person would be invited to pedal this stationary bike as 60 watt bulbs powered by the generator were turned on one at a time and most people were astonished at just how much effort it took just to make these things burn and how much the effort increased with each one added to the load! When the same number of CFLs were used instead the amount of work needed to burn them was almost effortless in comparison. Fellows CFLs are not that bad and hoarding up old wasteful technology hurts not only the environment but your pocket book by a lot more than you think! :)
 
#53 ·
oldred said:
The amount of energy saved by eliminating old style bulbs is staggering and that is why they are being mandated out of existence, it simply would not happen any other way. As far as the Mercury pollution problem the anti-CFL crowd likes to push, well that just goes back to the "big picture" and the fact that the extra coal that would be required to keep those wasteful bulbs burning would dump more Mercury into the environment than the small amount in the bulbs. Coal is still a big factor in energy production in this country and is likely to remain so for a long time and it is estimated that thousands of tons of coal and the pollution it causes will be eliminated by switching to CFLs.


The local power company did a demo here not long ago with a bicycle powered generator and a series of light bulbs, the purpose of which was to demonstrate just how wasteful conventional lighting is. A person would be invited to pedal this stationary bike as 60 watt bulbs powered by the generator were turned on one at a time and most people were astonished at just how much effort it took just to make these things burn and how much the effort increased with each one added to the load! When the same number of CFLs were used instead the amount of work needed to burn them was almost effortless in comparison. Fellows CFLs are not that bad and hoarding up old wasteful technology hurts not only the environment but your pocket book by a lot more than you think! :)

I am not sold.

First the bicycle demonstration shows how well coal and oil perform as an energy source; amazingly well. It shows how poorly most alternative energies work.....dismal!....And how far we have to go before we mandate our economy off the cliff. With no economy, no gains will be made in alternative energy and our society will be more worried about food and survival then clean energy.

Second, as I said, I did calculate energy usage by a light bulb. A 75 watt bulb is .01 per hour. How many lights do you keep on in your house? I watched our activities. We have two 15w stairway light on at night. During the day, we don't walk around with a house of lights on. Some in the evening, dinner maybe, one or two at night. If we spend $1.50 a day on light bulbs that's a stretch.

How much does your family, or the typical family spend on Cokes a day? That's no different. Lets regulate that! It takes corn, farm equipment, trucks, fuel energy just to produce. If you drank one less soda pop a day you could cover the cost savings of replacing your entire house with florescent.

Landfill? No it's not a problem now till everyone dumps them year after year after year! And you know they will! It's just freaking stupid as a government mandate! It makes you forget you live in America!

There isn't anything, any product you buy that isn't tied to energy weather it's a light bulb or a video game. The best way to save energy is to kill our economy; which is happening right now.

If you are REALLY serious about energy savings, lets add 2 mandates. Everyone has to sell their house and buy one 1/2 the distance to work. That will make a HUGE impact.

Second, when you buy that second mandated house, everyone should be required to buy 1/2 the size of house!

With these 2 mandates we would be saving in the 40% range on energy, not the .0001% range!
 
#55 ·
gow589 said:
And by the way, the energy box pushed on our kids through the school system, about $50-$75 per student, 1000+ students, not an effective use of our money for sure!!!

Like I said IMO that's a slick way for someone to make a buck!


gow589 said:
First the bicycle demonstration shows how well coal and oil perform as an energy source

No what it clearly shows is how much less energy the CFLs take compared to the incandescent.

At a $1.50 a day that's about $550 a year of which well over half would be saved.
 
#56 ·
oldred said:
At a $1.50 a day that's about $550 a year of which well over half would be saved.
Only if:

1. Replacing all your bulbs is free
2. And the new bulbs use zero energy. $1.50 a day was on the high side.
3. I find the florescent screw in's break in lamps too which means replacement is higher.

If one person in the family drinks one less coke per day your at the smae spot!!


G-D it's AMERICA.....Don't I have a choice or is up to the liberals to make all my decisions?
 
#59 ·
gow589 said:
Only if:

1. Replacing all your bulbs is free
2. And the new bulbs use zero energy. $1.50 a day was on the high side.
3. I find the florescent screw in's break in lamps too which means replacement is higher.

If one person in the family drinks one less coke per day your at the smae spot!!


G-D it's AMERICA.....Don't I have a choice or is up to the liberals to make all my decisions?
Do you have a clue what committee endorsed and who signed the bill into law?
 
#61 ·
This looks up to date.
http://www.otpco.com/SaveEnergyMoney/applianceEnergyUsage.asp

Notice the difference in a CRT television a LCD tv and a Plasma tv

Tesla makes an all electric car. Credit car readers are not so exspensive that one couldnt be put on a parking meter along with an electrical outlet.
Ken ya diggit.
I know the electricity has to come from somewhere and an electric car isnt for everyone. But they dont pollute especially when at stop light like a combustion engine. That would work nicely in places like New york for instance where there are stop lights every block, practically
Hydroelectric plants emit no pollutants (there is still an environmental impact)
Coal does but it can pollute less and the stuff that does go out would be easier to control than trying to control pollutants in an individual basis like the combustion engine for instance.
Like oldred said, not any one thing can fix this, but an intelligent combination of many things can solve our issues.
We need to see more affordable solutions, chances are people like us on this forum are more likely to create than a bunch of lobbyists who are looking to protect there corporate interests, and there own meaningless jobs
 
#63 ·
gow589 said:
Only if:G-D it's AMERICA.....Don't I have a choice or is up to the liberals to make all my decisions?

No actually you don't have a choice to do just anything you like and when it involves everyone else then there must be regulations whether we like it or not! The fact is when it comes to resources like gas for our cars and energy for our homes, since it affects the monthly costs for everyone , a person does not have a god given right to just waste as much as he likes since in the end we all pay for it. Every time we stop at the gas pumps those of us drive a fuel efficient car still have to subsidize the people who insist on driving gas guzzlers. If those things were not so popular then gas demand would not be so high and prices would follow accordingly. I seriously doubt most people will accept that but it's a fact, the oil companies have the supply and demand thing down to a fine art and the proof is that every time gas consumption drops due to price increases so do the prices at the pump. It's basic laws of supply and demand, when the price is so high it hurts the profit margin then prices will come down and if we cut our over-all consumption by 30% which we could easily do then we would pay less for fuel, prices would fall in an effort to stimulate consumption and history has proven that time after time.
 
#65 ·
latech said:
This looks up to date.
http://www.otpco.com/SaveEnergyMoney/applianceEnergyUsage.asp

Notice the difference in a CRT television a LCD tv and a Plasma tv

Tesla makes an all electric car. Credit car readers are not so exspensive that one couldnt be put on a parking meter along with an electrical outlet.
Ken ya diggit.
I know the electricity has to come from somewhere and an electric car isnt for everyone. But they dont pollute especially when at stop light like a combustion engine. That would work nicely in places like New york for instance where there are stop lights every block, practically
Hydroelectric plants emit no pollutants (there is still an environmental impact)
Coal does but it can pollute less and the stuff that does go out would be easier to control than trying to control pollutants in an individual basis like the combustion engine for instance.
Like oldred said, not any one thing can fix this, but an intelligent combination of many things can solve our issues.
We need to see more affordable solutions, chances are people like us on this forum are more likely to create than a bunch of lobbyists who are looking to protect there corporate interests, and there own meaningless jobs
In my first post, the electric car will have difficulty in the current road environment. To make the platform really work we need to think outside the box and develop communities for them, around them.
 
#66 ·
oldred said:
No actually you don't have a choice to do just anything you like and when it involves everyone else then there must be regulations whether we like it or not! The fact is when it comes to resources like gas for our cars and energy for our homes, since it affects the monthly costs for everyone , a person does not have a god given right to just waste as much as he likes since in the end we all pay for it. Every time we stop at the gas pumps those of us drive a fuel efficient car still have to subsidize the people who insist on driving gas guzzlers. If those things were not so popular then gas demand would not be so high and prices would follow accordingly. I seriously doubt most people will accept that but it's a fact, the oil companies have the supply and demand thing down to a fine art and the proof is that every time gas consumption drops due to price increases so do the prices at the pump. It's basic laws of supply and demand, when the price is so high it hurts the profit margin then prices will come down and if we cut our over-all consumption by 30% which we could easily do then we would pay less for fuel, prices would fall in an effort to stimulate consumption and history has proven that time after time.
Well electric companies love championing lightbulb mandate laws. It doesn't real do much over all so it doesn't hurt their bottom line but it makes people think they are doing something.

Companies which use a lot of light, manufacturing, stores, etc have been using florescent since they were affordable. We put high energy florescent in the laser shop because of it. Anyone watching the bottom line was already doing it for the last 50 years. Target didn't need a mandate. The tungsten bulb survived in the house because it's impact is negligible and the light is better but.....America is slipping away.
 
#67 ·
gow589 said:
In my first post, the electric car will have difficulty in the current road environment. To make the platform really work we need to think outside the box and develop communities for them, around them.
Your thinking is quite positive,But the tesla can go 125 mph has a range of 250 miles on a single charge and does 0-60- in like under 4 seconds... Yah.
We do need to work on the community part.The road environment will take careof itself.
Teslas are pricey and they sold out to toyota I heard. Originally they were going to build the sports version and use the profits to build a minivan that would be a soccer mom car, good thinking.I think part of the problem is not many people think about the issue in depth as we have here at hotrodders. I truly believe that.
The community part would be a parking meter with a electrical outlet and a credit card or E Z pass transponder on it.You can put that anywhere.Also plugging in and charging at night (off peak) makes so much sense
 
#69 ·
And getting back to the topic... lighting is probably 20% or less of the consumption in the home. Refrigerators , electric stoves, AC units and fresh water pumps use most of it. Your plasma TV is an energy hog. LCD is cheaper than CRT ( cathode ray tube ( regular television)) and plasma
 
#71 ·
gow589 said:
...America is slipping away.

America is not necessarily slipping away but we are becoming so populated that a lot of things we took for granted for so many years are starting to spread thin and it is going to get worse, your rights end when what you decide to do affects your neighbor and that's why we must have regulations. If a person does not like the way things are then VOTE because it's the people who we send to office that will decide, it's definitely not perfect and our selection may not be all that good but it beats chaos and that's what you get when everyone thinks they can do anything they like regardless of the consequences to others.


Hey mods this has gotten WAAAAY past a tool discussion, could we move it to the lounge maybe so we can continue?
 
#72 ·
latech said:
Your thinking is quite positive,But the tesla can go 125 mph has a range of 250 miles on a single charge and does 0-60- in like under 4 seconds... Yah.
We do need to work on the community part.The road environment will take careof itself.
Teslas are pricey and they sold out to toyota I heard. Originally they were going to build the sports version and use the profits to build a minivan that would be a soccer mom car, good thinking.I think part of the problem is not many people think about the issue in depth as we have here at hotrodders. I truly believe that.
The community part would be a parking meter with a electrical outlet and a credit card or E Z pass transponder on it.You can put that anywhere.Also plugging in and charging at night (off peak) makes so much sense
There are still a lot of subtle issues. Until they can be substituted for SUV sized cars, they are not very desirable. Roads we have are much more comfortable in substantial sized cars. It doesn't mean small cars are not out there. I have a little V6 MGB but I prefer to avoid busy areas or areas with a lot of large trucks.

This is why I think we need to turn to the community. With the right community you could use small cars on the inside and large cars on the outside. Many rural counties are allowing golf carts and 4-wheelers on the road. I am afraid it is getting a lot of people killed because the roads are not designed for them.

Like anything else electric cars will take time. Look what we have done in the last 50 years; think what we can do with the next if we don't legislate our self into poverty. I think the real revolution is going to be with some sort of capacitor over batteries. There are still a lot of issues with batteries.

A light bulb; a piece of glass with a piece of wire in it. It is something which represents the foundation of industry in this country. If they can legislate that away, there is NOTHING to stop legislators from crushing these old cars we play with "in the name of what is good for the common public!"
 
#73 ·
oldred said:
America is not necessarily slipping away but we are becoming so populated that a lot of things we took for granted for so many years are starting to spread thin and it is going to get worse, your rights end when what you decide to do affects your neighbor and that's why we must have regulations. If a person does not like the way things are then VOTE because it's the people who we send to office that will decide, it's definitely not perfect and our selection may not be all that good but it beats chaos and that's what you get when everyone thinks they can do anything they like regardless of the consequences to others.


Hey mods this has gotten WAAAAY past a tool discussion, could we move it to the lounge maybe so we can continue?
We could split the topic?

Like I said, if our government is so intrusive that they can legislate out a glass bulb and a wire, a device our industry was founded on, there is nothing to keep them from crush any car older than 20 years for the "good of the public!"

You know, every time you fire up a car that does not meet current emissions, with the government devaluing our dollar price of steel has sky rocketed. Just think what we could do for our economy and people if any car older then 20 years was required to be turn in and crushed for scrap! Man that would go a long way for the good of the people!
 
#75 · (Edited)
oldred said:
America is not necessarily slipping away but we are becoming so populated that a lot of things we took for granted for so many years are starting to spread thin and it is going to get worse, your rights end when what you decide to do affects your neighbor and that's why we must have regulations. If a person does not like the way things are then VOTE because it's the people who we send to office that will decide, it's definitely not perfect and our selection may not be all that good but it beats chaos and that's what you get when everyone thinks they can do anything they like regardless of the consequences to others.
I have compared it to a coke, but as a product I really don't see much of a difference. The electric company sells electricity which we use for light. So we are buying light. When I chose to read at night I want an incandescent bulb; period.

Light is a product which takes energy. So is a Coke; although the energy in a Coke is not as visible. It took farm tractors to burn gas, plant corn, harvest corn, factories to produce the Coke, coal to run the plants, trucks to deliver it, stores to sell it, coal to run all the electricity, etc.

Coke is a product which is largely a byproduct of gas and coal; energy. I sit by my lamp giving off the light I prefer reading a book sipping a coke. If you can legislate my light away and make me be buy a light I don't want, why can't you legislate my coke away? Or ANY other product. I don't see a difference. They all are a product of energy.

Like I said, where it makes a dent such as in businesses which use a lot of lighting, it was already florescent.
 
#76 ·
gow589 said:
Yea, and that's just ONE school!
Are we SURE the school or district paid for it? Often that sort of thing is donated and the "offending" company getting a little marketing miles out of the donation.

Brian
 
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