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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gow589
Last fall my child got a "Green Energy" box from the school. Every child got one. These were full of FREE items. 2 florescent bulbs, 2 shower heads, 2 faucet heads, 2 low energy night lights, bags to measure flow of water in your faucets to make sure your not using too much, bags to measure flow the flow of your shower to make sure your not using too much water, temperature stickers to make sure your fridge is not too cold, temp stickers to make sure your house is not too warm or cold, temp sticks to check the temp of your faucet water to make sure it is not too hot, and a lot more.

What a freaking joke! $50-75 free to every child at school....of your money and mine through a government program! Ironically, I opened the box while we were sitting at dinner. The florescent bulb was broken in the box!!! AT THE DINNER TABLE! I put the bulb/box in a ziplock. I told her to take it back to her teacher and tell him we DON'T want a replacement. He huffed and TOSSED IT IN THE TRASH!

We work our *** off for a .01% improvement in energy and it cost us hundreds of dollars! ALL of this ignores the big picture and the real problems but is a program which makes them "feel good" about what their doing; at everyone elses expense!

That is the kind of thing that hurts the effort to educate the public and does far more harm than good, my opinion of that incident-that was a case of some smart huckster making a buck by selling that junk to the school system and while educating the kids on conservation is a good idea that kind of non-sense is not, you did the right thing IMO.


As much as it may seem like the efforts by conservationists are a waste of time, at least to some people, that is not the case at all. Even the early smog control devices on our cars that we all despised back in the early days did a tremendous lot of good, some helped a lot and some actually did harm but the over-all effect was overwhelmingly positive. A look at Mexico and China and the massive auto exhaust and industrial induced smog compared to our relatively clean air is testament to the fact that it did work, not perfect by a long shot but orders of magnitude better than the pre-smog vehicles.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 11:09 AM
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And yes I have a basement full of tungsten bulbs. I started stocking up on them. I buy the HF drop service bulb. I started buying them several years ago. Most bulbs are made to fail within a specific period of time so you have to buy more.

Years ago I had bulbs in my basement. I would loose on average of one bulb a month. I could hear the filament ring when people walk on the floor above. Once I replaced them with rough service bulbs, I never replaced them again. I have since bought HF rough service bulbs for all tungsten replacements.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by oldred
That is the kind of thing that hurts the effort to educate the public and does far more harm than good, my opinion of that incident-that was a case of some smart huckster making a buck by selling that junk to the school system and while educating the kids on conservation is a good idea that kind of non-sense is not, you did the right thing IMO.


As much as it may seem like the efforts by conservationists are a waste of time, at least to some people, that is not the case at all. Even the early smog control devices on our cars that we all despised back in the early days did a tremendous lot of good, some helped a lot and some actually did harm but the over-all effect was overwhelmingly positive. A look at Mexico and China and the massive auto exhaust and industrial induced smog compared to our relatively clean air is testament to the fact that it did work, not perfect by a long shot but orders of magnitude better than the pre-smog vehicles.
When my father was growing up he talked about how everyone burned coal. In the morning before school started they all had to wipe the coal dust of the tables. We have come a long way.

I have no problem with the pollutants of cars right now. In large cities where days of smog prevail int he summer 90% of it is dust which is often ignored.

Fuel for cars and trucks is less then 50% of our energy usage. Half of that is cars for general transportation (25% in total). The feeling some times is if we save 10% on MPG we will be saved. That's 10% of the 25% of what we use. We go electric but our energy just comes from other sources so the dream is a little misplaced.

When we need is not to strap our current energy environment because it will strap our ability to be productive and find alternatives. Look at what we have done in the last 50 years. Think about what 50 years will bring if we free up energy and regain what our country once was. If we don't stop the decline we are on we will find solutions for nothing.

I also believe we need to think outside the box. I was flying a corporate jet. My job required a 45min drive to work and home everyday. Now I started a CNC Laser business and my shop is next door. My gas bill went to a large percentage of my budget to nearly nothing.

The government wants you to be driving a Cushman but Americans want big cars. Why? Because when I pull up behind you on the big open road with my Ford F-350 no one want's to be in a Cushman. Well guess what, with my business I finally got that Cushman to drive across the field to work!

If we are serious about using small cars we need communities built for small cars. There is no way in hell I am heading out on the open road with semi's, deer, and people in large cars/trucks driving a Ecobox; I ain't doing it!

But if you have a community where the outside is accessible with regular transportation and the inside is anything under 1800lbs, then that is a game changer. People would be buying golf cars, eco boxes and they would be happy.

Also, look at house energy. With this green energy, the result in rural communities like where I live has been a push to burn wood (and a lot of other stuff). Everywhere I look out here people have gone back to burning nearly everything for heat; heat transfer systems, heated floors, everywhere a smoke stack. Some how I don't think that was the idea of clean energy.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
That is the kind of thing that hurts the effort to educate the public and does far more harm than good, my opinion of that incident-that was a case of some smart huckster making a buck by selling that junk to the school system and while educating the kids on conservation is a good idea that kind of non-sense is not, you did the right thing IMO.
The truth is there are MANY people (you and I included) that may not be aware or be avoiding such topics and something like that package can do a lot of good. It is like any change, it takes a many, many prodding's to make it happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
As much as it may seem like the efforts by conservationists are a waste of time, at least to some people, that is not the case at all. Even the early smog control devices on our cars that we all despised back in the early days did a tremendous lot of good, some helped a lot and some actually did harm but the over-all effect was overwhelmingly positive. A look at Mexico and China and the massive auto exhaust and industrial induced smog compared to our relatively clean air is testament to the fact that it did work, not perfect by a long shot but orders of magnitude better than the pre-smog vehicles.
This supports my other comment.

Brian
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 11:31 AM
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some intresting reading here... I got a couple questions ,.... ..... so I've got flouresant lites in my shop, which ones are the ''good'' ones ? or are they all good ? Do they make a ''spiral floresant'' rough service bulb for trouble lites ? I also have those LED hand lites with the magnetic base, can't see ***** with them !
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
The truth is there are MANY people (you and I included) that may not be aware or be avoiding such topics and something like that package can do a lot of good. It is like any change, it takes a many, many prodding's to make it happen.




Brian
I will NEVER understand the government telling em I cannot buy a pice of glass with a wire in it, but must instead buy glass with mercury in it!!
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gow589
I will NEVER understand the government telling em I cannot buy a pice of glass with a wire in it, but must instead buy glass with mercury in it!!


The amount of energy saved by eliminating old style bulbs is staggering and that is why they are being mandated out of existence, it simply would not happen any other way. As far as the Mercury pollution problem the anti-CFL crowd likes to push, well that just goes back to the "big picture" and the fact that the extra coal that would be required to keep those wasteful bulbs burning would dump more Mercury into the environment than the small amount in the bulbs. Coal is still a big factor in energy production in this country and is likely to remain so for a long time and it is estimated that thousands of tons of coal and the pollution it causes will be eliminated by switching to CFLs.


The local power company did a demo here not long ago with a bicycle powered generator and a series of light bulbs, the purpose of which was to demonstrate just how wasteful conventional lighting is. A person would be invited to pedal this stationary bike as 60 watt bulbs powered by the generator were turned on one at a time and most people were astonished at just how much effort it took just to make these things burn and how much the effort increased with each one added to the load! When the same number of CFLs were used instead the amount of work needed to burn them was almost effortless in comparison. Fellows CFLs are not that bad and hoarding up old wasteful technology hurts not only the environment but your pocket book by a lot more than you think!
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by oldred
The amount of energy saved by eliminating old style bulbs is staggering and that is why they are being mandated out of existence, it simply would not happen any other way. As far as the Mercury pollution problem the anti-CFL crowd likes to push, well that just goes back to the "big picture" and the fact that the extra coal that would be required to keep those wasteful bulbs burning would dump more Mercury into the environment than the small amount in the bulbs. Coal is still a big factor in energy production in this country and is likely to remain so for a long time and it is estimated that thousands of tons of coal and the pollution it causes will be eliminated by switching to CFLs.


The local power company did a demo here not long ago with a bicycle powered generator and a series of light bulbs, the purpose of which was to demonstrate just how wasteful conventional lighting is. A person would be invited to pedal this stationary bike as 60 watt bulbs powered by the generator were turned on one at a time and most people were astonished at just how much effort it took just to make these things burn and how much the effort increased with each one added to the load! When the same number of CFLs were used instead the amount of work needed to burn them was almost effortless in comparison. Fellows CFLs are not that bad and hoarding up old wasteful technology hurts not only the environment but your pocket book by a lot more than you think!

I am not sold.

First the bicycle demonstration shows how well coal and oil perform as an energy source; amazingly well. It shows how poorly most alternative energies work.....dismal!....And how far we have to go before we mandate our economy off the cliff. With no economy, no gains will be made in alternative energy and our society will be more worried about food and survival then clean energy.

Second, as I said, I did calculate energy usage by a light bulb. A 75 watt bulb is .01 per hour. How many lights do you keep on in your house? I watched our activities. We have two 15w stairway light on at night. During the day, we don't walk around with a house of lights on. Some in the evening, dinner maybe, one or two at night. If we spend $1.50 a day on light bulbs that's a stretch.

How much does your family, or the typical family spend on Cokes a day? That's no different. Lets regulate that! It takes corn, farm equipment, trucks, fuel energy just to produce. If you drank one less soda pop a day you could cover the cost savings of replacing your entire house with florescent.

Landfill? No it's not a problem now till everyone dumps them year after year after year! And you know they will! It's just freaking stupid as a government mandate! It makes you forget you live in America!

There isn't anything, any product you buy that isn't tied to energy weather it's a light bulb or a video game. The best way to save energy is to kill our economy; which is happening right now.

If you are REALLY serious about energy savings, lets add 2 mandates. Everyone has to sell their house and buy one 1/2 the distance to work. That will make a HUGE impact.

Second, when you buy that second mandated house, everyone should be required to buy 1/2 the size of house!

With these 2 mandates we would be saving in the 40% range on energy, not the .0001% range!
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 02:17 PM
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And by the way, the energy box pushed on our kids through the school system, about $50-$75 per student, 1000+ students, not an effective use of our money for sure!!!
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Old 05-21-2011, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by gow589
And by the way, the energy box pushed on our kids through the school system, about $50-$75 per student, 1000+ students, not an effective use of our money for sure!!!

Like I said IMO that's a slick way for someone to make a buck!


Quote:
Originally Posted by gow589
First the bicycle demonstration shows how well coal and oil perform as an energy source

No what it clearly shows is how much less energy the CFLs take compared to the incandescent.

At a $1.50 a day that's about $550 a year of which well over half would be saved.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by oldred

At a $1.50 a day that's about $550 a year of which well over half would be saved.
Only if:

1. Replacing all your bulbs is free
2. And the new bulbs use zero energy. $1.50 a day was on the high side.
3. I find the florescent screw in's break in lamps too which means replacement is higher.

If one person in the family drinks one less coke per day your at the smae spot!!


G-D it's AMERICA.....Don't I have a choice or is up to the liberals to make all my decisions?
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:06 PM
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Like I said IMO that's a slick way for someone to make a buck!

Yea, and that's just ONE school!
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred

At a $1.50 a day that's about $550 a year of which well over half would be saved.
How much are glasses when you can't see with the partial wave length of light given by florescents.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2011, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gow589
Only if:

1. Replacing all your bulbs is free
2. And the new bulbs use zero energy. $1.50 a day was on the high side.
3. I find the florescent screw in's break in lamps too which means replacement is higher.

If one person in the family drinks one less coke per day your at the smae spot!!


G-D it's AMERICA.....Don't I have a choice or is up to the liberals to make all my decisions?
Do you have a clue what committee endorsed and who signed the bill into law?
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:45 PM
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Do you have a clue what committee endorsed and who signed the bill into law?
I know it was a Republican bill which he was very sorry for and is now trying to get it revered.
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