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Old 12-22-2009, 10:15 PM
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increasing recovering time on compressor

being that my center broke out on my drive pulley(the one on the electric motor), my wife's going to let me get a new pulley YAY, i was wondering if you get a bigger pulley will it increase the recovery time on the compressor or if you decrease the size will it increase the time. i would think that you would want it to be as close to a 1:1 ratio to get the best recovery time correct. i am thinking it is like a tranny, it the drive gear is bigger than the driven gear you high torque and if you have a drive gear is smaller you get an overdrive situation correct.
need you help if i am wrong please send me in the correct direction.
thanks
CRITTER

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Old 12-23-2009, 12:17 AM
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I would go with stock pulley size to avoid over working the motor. Difficult for an over driven motor to start under load.

FYI: Two single stage 4 to 5hp compressors plumbed into one air header produces enough volume for some pretty serious hobby blasting. One 5hp 60gal single stage compressor produces good volume for blast cabinet provided your nozzle size is not too big.

Favorite tip: I use rubber fuel line instead of the expensive ceramic nozzles. Saves a lot of money.
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critter119
being that my center broke out on my drive pulley(the one on the electric motor), my wife's going to let me get a new pulley YAY, i was wondering if you get a bigger pulley will it increase the recovery time on the compressor or if you decrease the size will it increase the time. i would think that you would want it to be as close to a 1:1 ratio to get the best recovery time correct. i am thinking it is like a tranny, it the drive gear is bigger than the driven gear you high torque and if you have a drive gear is smaller you get an overdrive situation correct.
need you help if i am wrong please send me in the correct direction.
thanks
CRITTER


You are right as far as the pulley size doing what you want but if you do that you will both overload your motor and overspeed your compressor pump (at least until the motor burns out IF it will even start), both of which are on the ragged edge of their design limits already if this is a cheaper name compressor. Use the exact same size pulley because the only way to increase performance is with more power and a bigger pump or more power and doing what you are suggesting to increase pump speed if the pump can be safely run at the higher speed, most of the cheaper ones can't.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:50 AM
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thank you didn't know about that. as far as brand name it is a westinhouse air brake company, not sure of the motor and pump if they have4 been replaced or not
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:24 AM
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I just assumed you had one of the economy home shop outfits that are so common. If that is a heavy duty outfit and maybe parts have already been changed then there might be something you can do, what are the specs on the motor? Single stage or two stage pump? What you can do is use a clamp-on amp meter to find out how much power (amps) the motor is pulling at cut-out pressure and if it is significantly less than the data plate rating then you just might be able to increase pump speed after all. The type/brand of pump will give some indication of how fast it can safely run but generally you will want to keep most pumps at no more than about 1000 RPM, slower is better.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:28 PM
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If the compressor is equipped w/an unloader on the pressure switch, this will allow easier starts- basically, the compressor's not starting against tank pressure.

The motor should have a capacitor for assisting start-up (some have two- start & run). If not, it wouldn't be a good idea to change the gear ratio for more compressor pump speed. But if you have a cap start motor of sufficient size (that's the kicker) AND an unloader, you may be able to speed up the pump- just don't go loco.

BTW, if your pump is an oil-less design, I'd say to not try it. Most I've seen were direct drive; being as how yours at least has pulleys, I'm thinking it may be oiled. These usually rely on a splash system (dippers on the rods) to oil the rotating/reciprocating bits and pieces. The pump's speed regulates how the oil is thrown around for lubrication- so drastically changing the speed of the pump wouldn't be a good idea, IMHO.

Some pumps have a wire dipper- an especially failure-prone set-up, that won't take kindly to increased RPM OR oil viscosity.

That said, I've also seen the same basic pump used on different capacity compressors (like some Craftsman oiled models that preceded the oil-less era)- having different motors and ratios- so the possibility exists that yours could be upgraded. But likely not w/o a motor change to compliment the ratio difference. Catch 22 deal.
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:42 PM
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okay this is what the plates on the motor and pump said,
motor
AC-1 PH-thinking it means AC current single phase
Motor-FJ
HP- 1/2
FRAME-186
RPM-1725
CYC-60
C-40
HOURS-CONT
STYLE-1180017-C
SR-BR
it does have 1 compasitor on it, not sure about unloader
it also says that it is a westinhouse elcetric company motor

know the pump
pump type- g
small id tag as you will see i n pictures
one gray box says 2 G
the other says 157062
nothing above them to Tell what they mean.

Drive pulley was roughly 6"
and the driven pulley was 13 5/8"
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:43 PM
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here are some more pics
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Old 12-26-2009, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critter119
here are some more pics
Just so you are clear on what a pulley change will do:

A larger drive pulley on the motor will speed up the pump. IF the additional RPM doesn't exceed the motor or pumps capacity (or cause lube issues I mentioned above) it will DECREASE the recovery time because the pump is running at a higher RPM.

Vice versa for a smaller drive (motor) pulley.

So-
BIGGER PULLEY = LESS recovery time.
SMALLER PULLEY = MORE recovery time.

I'm going to suggest that you simply replace the drive pulley w/an identical pulley- - IF you can determine that the broken pulley was the correct OEM size in the first place.

I'm going to bet that the pulley that broke is a replacement- the original pulley may or may not have been the same diameter. And most likely, it was made of cast iron or steel- not aluminum or pot metal (zinc alloy) like the pulley that broke is constructed of. If it were me, I'd be doing some research to see just what the diameter of the original pulley was, and replace the broken one w/the original size pulley.

I'm unable to make out any writing on the various plates.

The unloader is the small diameter copper tubing that is seen running to the pressure switch, that's a good thing. You may have noticed a pressure loss at the end of the tank fill cycle. Would sound like a brief "shhhh".

A BAD thing is seen in that same photo, BTW. Those wires are rubbing across the hole of the switch HAVE to be run through the proper fitting to protect them from chaffing. It's just a matter of time before the wires' insulation will be breached- and someone will receive a nasty shock- or worse.

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Old 12-26-2009, 08:30 PM
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I was thinking maybe it was a bigger outfit but still there may be something you can do. First off that is a good motor even if it is a bit small and will make it's rated power without any undue effort so unless it is grossly overloaded it should not burn up without ample warning, if you increase the pulley size watch the motor and don't let it overheat. The best way to do this is to find an AMP meter and run the compressor until it shuts off, note the AMP draw at shut off. If it is near the HP rating of the motor then you will be as far as you can go with it but if it is less then you can use an even bigger pulley, if however it is higher than the rating then the motor would already be overloaded. That slight hiss after shut off that Cobalt mentioned would be critical even on a small compressor such as this if the motor is near it's max rating at shut off. Without that unloader the motor would have to start up (or try to) while under a load which could cause overload damage, if it's still in good shape you do however have a tough little motor there!
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critter119
okay this is what the plates on the motor and pump said,
motor
AC-1 PH-thinking it means AC current single phase
Motor-FJ
HP- 1/2
FRAME-186
RPM-1725
CYC-60
C-40
HOURS-CONT
STYLE-1180017-C
SR-BR
it does have 1 compasitor on it, not sure about unloader
it also says that it is a westinhouse elcetric company motor

know the pump
pump type- g
small id tag as you will see i n pictures
one gray box says 2 G
the other says 157062
nothing above them to Tell what they mean.

Drive pulley was roughly 6"
and the driven pulley was 13 5/8"
The pulley ratio will mean that your pump is turning about 760 RPM.

Be sure that when you replace the drive pulley that you get the correct width to match the driven pulley. The belt should also be correct for the application- belts come in various widths, use the right one. Otherwise, the belt won't ride in the pulley groove correctly. This can cause wear, unnecessary friction losses and extra motor load that uses up motor capacity that could otherwise be used to power the compressor.
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:57 AM
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760 RPM? I looked at that and thought "well he missed that by quite a bit" but, no, he did not! I had done some quick math mentally the first time and was thinking that he was fairly close to what it should be but I had my figures way off the mark! Without knowing the exact specs on the pump it would be impossible to give the optimum speed but I would be surprised if that pump was designed to run at less than 1000 RPM. Of course any pulley increase would need to be approached with caution and you would need to monitor both the motor and pump for signs of overheating and/or the motor overloading especially at start-up. For no more than a small pulley costs I think it would be worthwhile to increase the pump speed to at least 900 RPM and if all is well at that point you might want to increase it a bit more, however I would be hesitant to recommend going over 1000 RPM. If it turns out that 760 RPM is the design numbers then by increasing to 900 I would think both the motor and the pump would just produce warning signs well before any serious damage would occur, any time anything like this is changed however a certain amount of risk is going to be involeved but in this case I think the risk to be minimal.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:29 PM
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thank you for your help i greatly appreciate the knowledge that you have passed along. i was originally thinking to go as big as i could go . but thanks to your help it makes me reilize what damage i could have caused to my system. AGAIN THANK YOU
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
...I think it would be worthwhile to increase the pump speed to at least 900 RPM and if all is well at that point you might want to increase it a bit more, however I would be hesitant to recommend going over 1000 RPM. If it turns out that 760 RPM is the design numbers then by increasing to 900 I would think both the motor and the pump would just produce warning signs well before any serious damage would occur...
This sounds reasonable enough to me (for what that's worth lol).

I would, however, do some real research on the compressor to see what the original set-up was. I tend to be conservative when it come to stepping outside of a manufacturer's design regarding electric motor-powered equipment. Motors are relatively expensive, pulleys are not. The pulley that broke was assuredly NOT an OEM pulley- so someone may already have increased (or decreased, for that matter) the pump speed. I would want to know what it started life with, before I went down to buy a new (steel/cast iron) pulley.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:10 AM
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operating temp

Is the compressor in an unheated garage. a few years ago mine scorred the crank and wiped out the rods when the temp got below freezing. The kids left it turned on and when it got down in the low 20's it tried to restart and had lube problems. when I rebuilt it I drilled and X ed the rods and put on dippers like I did when rebuilding my ford flathead 4. I bought a plug in heating tape for keeping water pipes from freezing and wrapped the pump and plug it in when rtemps are low.. Last night It was below 0 F. here.
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