initial timing ? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2007, 11:05 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 201
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
initial timing ?

my motor is a 350 sbc, 4 bolt main, running for now 416 58cc heads ,motor is 30 over, edelbrock performer cam, street dominator dual plane intake, edelbrock 600 carb, 1-5/8 headers, 2-1/2 exauast to rear end turn downs, have set at 12 degree before runs good but cranks slow when hot cranks better at 8 degree before, but sluggish off idle, battery is in trunk, pos cable is three times as big as stock cable, have large ground from motor to frame battery is 1000 cca new as well, have solinoid shield, plus have ford solinoid wired as doc vette showed, battery is grounded to rear sub frame, should i run my ground to the motor as well or is my timing wrong, 58cc heads have bumped my compression up to 10 to one or more P.S. starter is new as are all cables and hardware

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2007, 08:13 AM
Frisco's Avatar
Glad To Be Here
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canton, North Carolina
Age: 72
Posts: 2,244
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wormy
my motor is a 350 sbc, 4 bolt main, running for now 416 58cc heads ,motor is 30 over, edelbrock performer cam, street dominator dual plane intake, edelbrock 600 carb, 1-5/8 headers, 2-1/2 exauast to rear end turn downs, have set at 12 degree before runs good but cranks slow when hot cranks better at 8 degree before, but sluggish off idle, battery is in trunk, pos cable is three times as big as stock cable, have large ground from motor to frame battery is 1000 cca new as well, have solinoid shield, plus have ford solinoid wired as doc vette showed, battery is grounded to rear sub frame, should i run my ground to the motor as well or is my timing wrong, 58cc heads have bumped my compression up to 10 to one or more P.S. starter is new as are all cables and hardware
Be sure that all the battery cable connection points are clean bare metal.

Additional ground cables can help.

Have you considered using a gear reduction starter?

12 degrees initial should not be a problem even when the engine is hot.

Using the Ford starter solenoid (mounted well away from the exhaust manifold) should have elliminated the need for a starter solenoid shield.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2007, 10:52 AM
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: PICTURE TEST
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: york pa
Age: 52
Posts: 2,795
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
cranking

Is the new starter a rebuilt from auto zone or some other chain store????

What is the cranking compression when you check it with a compression gage????

Keith
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2007, 01:36 PM
hotrodf1's Avatar
Chasing dreams with a ball bat
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Evansville, IN
Age: 36
Posts: 545
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
10:1 sounds pretty high for such a mild cam I think. Like he said, what kind of psi you get doing a cranking comp. test?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2007, 03:01 PM
docvette's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuild an alternator Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lafayette, california
Age: 62
Posts: 7,362
Wiki Edits: 12

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Doc Here,

First of All, your Cables MUST be 0/0 or 0/1 For a run of that length..

You Can't just short run a ground cable to the rear and call it good..IT MUST go from the engine block to the Battery NON STOP..your dealing with a transference of a LOT of Current over 25 feet..

Your Timing sounds a bit shallow at 8 degrees, Which might account for it's canine like performance off the line..12 is a good starting point.

Have the Starter Tested..If it is GOOD and your Compression IN FACT is 10.1, think Gear reduction..

Set up a Good Ground buss system First..It probably will cure the problem.

For your Ground Buss, Set it up as follows:

BE sure First, You have A 4 gauge Cable (for stock battery location, OR , 0/0 or 0/1 Cable for a trunk location) from the battery, to any handy bolt at or NEAR the starter on the block .

Using a short run to something like a seat belt bolt, or body bolt just adds resistance, the body is insulated..(has road paint and sits on rubber mounts) this , makes for a "Poor or no" Bonding situation..
  • that makes resistance..
  • Resistance makes Heat..
  • heat melts things and further insulates the bond,
  • which makes more heat..and so on..until you no longer have a good bond..

To install a proper ground buss system, This MUST be done:
  • 1 ) Run a properly gauged (0/0 or 0/1) Ground cable from the battery in the trunk, Or A 4 Gauge cable for a stock located battery, to any handy bolt at or near the starter on the block. From that same bolt get a 4 gauge Battery cable at the parts store, that has two 3/8 ring terminals on each end and attach it there and to the Frame. Make this run as short as possible.

  • 2 ) Next get some 10 gauge wire and ring terminals, run two wires from your bolt on the block, to the Firewall, Burnish off all the paint, grease or oil or dirt from the area, Install a sheetmetal or Self Drilling Tech screw using a star washer as well as a lock washer.. and the other 10 gauge wire to the Alternator ground lug, bracket or mount bolt and attach with star and lock washers.
  • 3 ) Next get some Wire Braid, (expensive! about $10 for 5 - 6 inch pieces! ) Check Radio Shack for this, OR cheaper yet, get some RG 8 Coax cable, about 10 feet. Should run you about 15 cents a foot.

HOW TO MAKE WAY DURABLE CHEAP GROUND BRAID:
--------------------------------------------------
  • 1 ) carefully Slit the insulation from the cable with a Talaban Boarding pass (box knife) .


  • 2 ) Peel away the insulation until you just have the center dielectric and braid left, then carefully press the ends of the coax cable BRAID together like a Chinese "Finger puzzle"


  • 3 ) Slide the dielectric and center conductor out. remove it and toss it..


  • 4 ) On a work bench, Flatten the Braided shield out, use a round weight like a full paint can to roll over it.
------------------------------------------------------

This will be your braid cable, just Cut to smaller length's as needed, and tuck the cut ends into a crimp terminal and crimp the ends on..

IF you can Solder, Tin the ends before you tuck the ends of the cable into the terminals, then Tin the barrel of the terminals, then insert the cable and crimp..

Then heat the terminal and braid, feed some solder into the opposite end as the heat is being applied, let it melt and FLOW or WICK toward the heat..until the terminal barrel is filled and is smooth and shiny..

that is a good joint..gray and rough is a "Cold Joint" and you'll have to start over..
  • 4 ) NEXT, install braid from the radiator support to the frame, Fenderwells to frame , hood to firewall, Doors to door posts, gas flap to body, tailgate / Trunk to body. Install a cable or Braid From the Fuel tank Ground lug where the sender, Fuel line is to the frame..burnish the frame, use star washers and sheetmetal or Tech (self Drilling screws) on the frame.

  • 5 ) At each point the wire is grounded, Burnish ALL the paint and grease off to bare metal. Use a proper star-washer and lock. Use sheetmetal or Tech screws where no screws are available.


It sounds like a lot of work, but after you assemble all the parts, it's only a few hours to do..and you'll end up with a system that will work reliably for many years to come..and can eliminate that from your troubleshooting list.

Remember: GROUND is the other Half of your 12 volt circuit AND is equally as important as having POWER to the device!

Doc
__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
Electronic & Electrical
Innovations
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2007, 03:58 PM
RippinRon's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Thornbury, Ontario
Age: 33
Posts: 948
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
That what a very informative post. Thanks for that Doc!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 06:07 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 320 Times in 317 Posts
Replace your standard 4 pin HEI ignition module with a 5 pin version (Olds 260 V8). The 5th pin is a 10deg ignition retard when it is grounded thru a simple switch to ground.
Now you have a switchable 10deg ignition retard good for easier starting when hot or 10 deg switchable nitrous retard.

You can also wire in a switch to disable the 12v+ power to the ignition (big red-pink wire on HEI). Crank the motor over with the spark disabled then throw the switch to enable the spark and it will fire easily. Makes a cheap stealthy anti theft device. Any good automotive switch rated at 15AMPS or more will do fine.
Both take the load off the starter during cranking when the motor is hot and the timing is advanced. Ford has this auto cranking retard built into their factory Duraspark II ignition box.
Check and verify your total mechanical timing at high rpm. Should be 32 to 36deg at max advance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
50 degrees initial timing?? possible??? I did it. hotrodf1 Engine 12 03-31-2006 11:14 AM
ignition timing bad502 Engine 21 02-20-2006 06:57 PM
350 chevy timing tiresmoke55 Engine 7 01-14-2006 10:55 PM
Initial timing on Pontiac 400? joefromcocomo Engine 2 12-07-2005 04:56 AM
high initial timing (part 2) stinky jinx Engine 3 08-15-2004 04:54 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.