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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky5150
I looked there before, but I couldn't make out the any numbers.
If there are numbers- but they're just hard to read- try using a light from a steep angle to the pad where the suffix is located. In other words, don't shine the light from directly above the pad, angle it. The numbers will often jump right out at you, done this way.

Another thing to try is making a 'rubbing' of the pad, using the side of a pencil lead and a piece of thin paper.

Good luck.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
If there are numbers, but they're hard to read, try using a light from a steep angle to the pad where the suffix is located. In other words, don't shine the light from directly above the pad, angle it. The numbers will often jump right out at you, done this way.

Another thing to try is making a 'rubbing' of the pad, using the side of a pencil lead.

Good luck.
Is it really that important to get those numbers? The head castings don't even match, so who knows what is on the inside as it sits today. The El Camino is 2000 miles away right now. I'll see what my dad can find, but don't know if he will come back with anything.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2010, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky5150
Is it really that important to get those numbers?
Only if you want to know what the block was originally installed in. If you don't particularly care, don't bother.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:12 PM
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Ok, I have another "what about this" question. I'm just trying to ask all the questions I can before I buy anything. If I buy anything.


This is what I am looking at right now.
-suffix code is CE360424
-block casting number is 3999289
-heads are oval port 094
-standard bore, steel crank never turned. (polished at .0001)
-heads have not been port and polished but cleaned up
-cam is crane advertised 544/302 with matching valve springs
-3 angle valve job, heads cut .010.
-dual plane 180 deg weiand intake 750 holly
-only around 1500 miles on it. (had it in a 85 grand prix)
Attached are the pictures I got.

What would something like that be worth? To the novice that I am is seems like a good engine to put into my El Camino. It is just a 4 and a half hour drive to see it in person. All thought and comments are welcome.

p.s. I don't need, nor want, the tranny that it is attached to at this time. I already have a 400.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2010, 03:47 PM
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This is likely a crate or service replacement engine/block, those heads doesn't come up in my sources.

Value is dependant on things like wear and damage. If the engine's already .060 over, it's worth less than a std. or 0.030" over engine, for instance. If the block or heads are cracked, the value goes way down- and w/o running it or disassembling and inspecting it, it's hard to tell just what you've got.

Mileage is relative. 1500 miles is barely broken in if street use. OR its a LOT of 1/4 mile runs (like ~ 3,000?)...

You might not need that short shaft tranny NOW, but you may later, or for trade. I'd try to get it along w/the engine unless the guy wants some crazy price for it.

What's the guy asking for it?

Last edited by cobalt327; 02-06-2010 at 04:00 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2010, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
This is likely a crate or service replacement engine/block, those heads doesn't come up in my sources.

Value is dependant on things like wear and damage. If the engine's already .060 over, it's worth less than a std. or 0.030" over engine, for instance. If the block or heads are cracked, the value goes way down- and w/o running it or disassembling and inspecting it, it's hard to tell just what you've got.

Mileage is relative. 1500 miles is barely broken in if street use. OR its 300 plus 1/4 mile runs...

What's the guy asking for it?
Asking $2500 but I think that is including the 400 bolted up to it. Of course he says "this engine has never been drag raced or over rev-ed but gently played with " The heads might be 049. Matches the years I believe.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2010, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky5150
Asking $2500 but I think that is including the 400 bolted up to it. Of course he says "this engine has never been drag raced or over rev-ed but gently played with " The heads might be 049. Matches the years I believe.
He's got it priced right on up there like he believes his own press, so to speak.

Just hard to say, from a distance- or even if you were right there, w/o pulling some covers, doing a compression check, or that sort of thing.

I dropped a decimal in the 1/4 mile runs- figure up and back is .5 miles, 1500 miles could be 3K runs not 300 runs.
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:27 PM
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If you do decide to go see it, plan on removing the plugs to see what they look like- they're a window into the combustion chamber and will tell you a LOT about things like the condition of the guides guides. Mark the plugs before removing them so you know what side was pointed at the exhaust and intake valve.

No one should kick about removing the plugs, and if you were to ask before hand, he would have ample opportunity to clean or replace them. You want to see what they look like coming straight from the heads.

The engine oil condition won't be much help, but it should be full, and not gritty, 'milkshakey' or burned, same thing w/the tranny- the fluid should still smell sweet not burnt and be translucent red, not brown or milky.

With only 1500 miles there should be zero sludge built up under the valve covers. Try to get him to let you remove at least one (take a fresh v-cover gasket w/you) to get a close look at the springs and the valve stem seals- the seals should still be very pliable- not hardened or cracked, but soft and compliant. Double check the casting numbers of the heads- you don't want to get saddled w/some peanut port heads.

You may be able to see into the plug holes well enough to catch a glimpse of the tops of the pistons. They should be clean. If oversized, you might be able to see the size stamped into them.

The engine should be able to be turned over by hand on the crank pulley, it may be hard, but it should definitely be able to be turned at least some. If you're able, turn the crank forwards and backwards to see how much slack you can feel in the timing set. You shouldn't hear any 'clunks' or knocks as you do this, coming from the bottom end.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2010, 04:35 PM
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Thank you for that information. It is very useful. I'll give myself a month to look around and find the right deal. If I don't find something by then I will just rebuild my 393. Who knows, it might just be a 4 bolt
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:17 PM
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Ok, got another "what about this" question.
(at least I'm keeping them to one topic )

Block: 454 4-bolt 14015445 standard bore, no machine work done. ( know it could be cracked and any number of "what-if's" just taking it at face value right now)
The heads are: 14092360

It is just the block and heads. Was thinking of putting a 496 stroker together.
I seen this site linked while reading on other boards.
http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevbb_rotate.html
I was thinking about getting it balanced and forged pistons.

I'm thinking if I can at least put together a strong bottom end, then I can get better heads / intake when I have some extra money.

Asking $550 for the block / heads
About $1350 for the Rotating Assembly

Last edited by Chucky5150; 02-08-2010 at 09:02 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky5150
Block: 454 4-bolt 14015445 standard bore, no machine work done. ( know it could be cracked and any number of "what-if's" just taking it at face value right now)
The heads are: 14092360
Good block, but peanut port heads, I do believe.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Good block, but peanut port heads, I do believe.
Ok, that matches what I thought. Why are peanut port heads bad?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky5150
Ok, that matches what I thought. Why are peanut port heads bad?
Just like the name implies- the ports are small. IIRC, they measure around 200cc intake- barely enough to support a hot 355, let alone a 496.

It has been opined that on a 454 the PP heads will get you an easy 450 HP. Up that to 500 HP w/big valves and a lot of porting. Supposedly, 600 HP is possible- maxed out- but at what cost? The amount of time and labor involved would make this all but impossible, IMHO. And that's if it's even possible in the first place.

Much better to start out with 049/781-type heads ('big' oval port, open chamber) if using OEM, or just use aftermarket if at all possible.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:01 AM
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I run a 396 (bored to 413 cid) or a 454 (bored to 468) in my c10 1970 truck. I swap the engines out from time to time. BBC's and be bore out to 0.090" with out any problems.

I have both engines built the same way (8.75 to 9:1 cr, mild cam with 206/212 degrees at 0.050", holley 750 with vacuum secondary, holley intake, late model BBC vortec exhaust manifolds, large valves with bowl blending). Truck weighs 4400 with driver, has a th400, 1400 stall, and LSD 3.08 gear. The 454 runs a 14.8 at 96 mph and the 396 runs a 15.2 at 92. so, 365hp for the 454 and 320hp for the 396. No headers are hurting the power but I like quiet.

The 454 makes noticeable amount more power than the 396.

Yes, you need to run the 454 balancer and flexplate (externally balanced).

furthermore, you will also need to use the 396 short water pump and brackets on the 454 block. As the 454 long nose water pump will not clear the radiator with the stock fan clutch. I moved my engine back so I could run the later model brackets (they look better).

Finally, the early heads use a 3/8 bolt for the alternator pivot point and the later heads use a 7/16 thread. Or the other way around (I forget, but they are different).

I would get a complete 454 with 781 or 049 heads (123cc). Or just get a 454 short block and use an early model 402 cid head (820 casting, 112cc, semi open, great flowing exhaust port) that will work well with a stock set of 454 flat top low compression pistons and a mild cam. What heads do you have on your 396?

Most stock 454's are weak. But a mild cam, dual plane intake, and a set of headers will really increase output.

If you plan use the stock converter and around a 3.08 gear then keep the cam mild. A 252 to 268 degree range (advertised) should do it.

BBC's eat cams. use oil additive at break in and at each oil change. www.zddplus.com. cost an extra 10.00 and oil change.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
What heads do you have on your 396?
heads have different numbers
3917215 and 3909802

I'm really torn between what I want to do. I'd love the experience of building a 454. While others just tell me I should be happy with a 396 and that it would be more than enough. I really want to be able to build something like this for my el camino.
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