Intake bolts clamping - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2013, 09:36 PM
spinn's Avatar
Bubbles is the girl next door
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Midnight
Posts: 2,484
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 13
Thanked 81 Times in 79 Posts
If it makes me happy? How about if it solves my issue.

11 is correct in my situation.

My question was about fastener material clamping data. I understand whats going on , and how often it occurs.

If it was heat related a harder bolt might help. If event stress, a stud could help by exerting a secondary clamp on the first with a double nut. At 11 lbs the studs bonus clamping strength should not be releveant.

Usually to drive the stud in on installation, you would use a double nut.

Just bouncing ideas off the members here.

LaTech is very knowledgable, he has plainly answered obscure questions of mine on trans, a/c, and whatever. Got to say, thanks man.

    Advertisement

Last edited by spinn; 04-11-2013 at 09:43 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 05:40 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
How about if I went with studs? Then I could use doubled nuts to secure the hold.

If that is even how it releases the hold. My thinking is from heat expansion.
Gasket crush is the culprit. Studs are fine (if somewhat of an overkill), but simply using bolts that are retightened until the gaskets take a set is all that's really needed. But regardless if bolts or studs/nuts, retightening is the key.

Studs can be used on any intake, usually. They require the studs being threaded in after the intake is in place. Not something I recommend, just saying.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 09:49 AM
spinn's Avatar
Bubbles is the girl next door
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Midnight
Posts: 2,484
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 13
Thanked 81 Times in 79 Posts
t clamps? What a unusual suggestion. How would you fashion them to hold down the vortec intake?

So the loosening is from a event. The heat cycle expands it. Then the gasket is left squished.

At some point the intake bolts should stay snugged. Now if they didn't...that is my problem. It seems over time the bolts holding my vortec style baseplate still loosen after almost a year. Many heat cycles later, and after any retorquing already done.

There is no leak, just concern. I happen to put a wrench on it.

T bolts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 09:57 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 890
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 71 Times in 65 Posts
As stated Vortec intake with the 8 vertical intake bolts require 11 lb/ft as already stated. The torque sequence is 3 steps, 2 lb/ft, 9lb/ft then 11 lb/ft. This per the 2013 Chevrolet Performance Parts Catalogue page 207. This is for all Vortec heads:stock L31 350, Bowtie Small port(185cc) and Largeport(215cc), Fastburn 210cc heads.

peace
Hog
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 10:34 AM
spinn's Avatar
Bubbles is the girl next door
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Midnight
Posts: 2,484
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 13
Thanked 81 Times in 79 Posts
Are you suggesting something?

Do you think the gasket was compressed incorrectly. Like it was 2lbs, 5, and 11lbs. This would cause a failure?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:54 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 890
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 71 Times in 65 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
Are you suggesting something?

Do you think the gasket was compressed incorrectly. Like it was 2lbs, 5, and 11lbs. This would cause a failure?
No not at all, I was just going through a Chev Performance catalog earlier and saw the specs.

11 lb/ft feels like no torque at all, if it werent for the spec. I would use a little more torque.

The Vortec 305/350 trucks engines are notorius for intake gasket failures. the bolts apply the claming force are not perpendicular to the sealing surface. Since Vortec heads are iron, most intakes are aluminum(L30/31 are aluminum) so with every heat up/cooldown, the differnce in expansion/contraction rates between the heads/manifold start to roll the gasket. Also when Dexcool is exposed to air, like what happens in an underserviced cooling system, it becomes corrosive, corrosive enough to etch the cast iron heads. All these factors combined cause failures in the gasket seal.
Originally GM heralded the encapsulated silicone Vortec gaskets as reusable. This was later found to be false. Gm has redesigned these gaskets at least once.

Stock encapsulated silicone Vortec intake gasket


Felpro Vortec problem solver intake gaskets $69.99 These gaskets have metal caging in them.



GMPP offers a paper Vortec gasket($41.00)
12497760
Gasket Kit, Vortec Design
• Designed for Vortec heads P/N 12529093, P/N 12558060,
P/N 12464298 and P/N 12497186 only
• Gasket thickness is 0.120" (1/8"), post size is 1.080" x 2.160"
with tapered wall
• Has both early style 6-bolt pattern and Vortec 4-bolt pattern
• Includes 2 gaskets

they appear to be the same as FelPro 1255 Vortec gaskets for $33.00




peace
Hog

Last edited by Hogg; 04-12-2013 at 12:21 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 12:30 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 890
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 71 Times in 65 Posts
The GMPP gaskets above 12497760 , are NOT paper, they are composite W/Coating.

here are the Felpro encapsulated silicone Vortec gaskets Fel Pro MS90131 $37.99



See how the Fel Pro MS98000T Problem Solver (with metal caging) appears to be much more robust?

peace
Hog
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 01:28 PM
Custom10's Avatar
my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

Last journal entry: SS
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 49
Posts: 1,096
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 15
Thanked 26 Times in 23 Posts
Yep "problem solver", too bad you need to pay for the entire kit when all that is really needed is the side gaskets, these are great with lock pins too, have had my intake off 3 or 4 times and reused the gaskets never any problem or leak, just re-do the front and back beads with RTV black each time.

like I said,,, I think the song goes,,,dont worry be happy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 05:44 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
t clamps? What a unusual suggestion. How would you fashion them to hold down the vortec intake?

So the loosening is from a event. The heat cycle expands it. Then the gasket is left squished.

At some point the intake bolts should stay snugged. Now if they didn't...that is my problem. It seems over time the bolts holding my vortec style baseplate still loosen after almost a year. Many heat cycles later, and after any retorquing already done.

There is no leak, just concern. I happen to put a wrench on it.

T bolts?
The poster is a spammer. What he suggested is not applicable to an intake- those clamps connect pipe together.

The fasteners loosen because the GASKETS GET CRUSHED. It really makes no difference if this is because of heat or whatever. If you retighten the intake after each heat cycle until they take a set, all's going to be fine. Neglect to do so and I can assure you, you're going to have problems.

Have used Fel Pro MS98000T gasket set (>$50!) w/good results. Mine came w/only one silicone valve cover gasket. Checked and that's how they came, then. Don't know about now. Do not over torque them.

Last edited by cobalt327; 04-12-2013 at 05:54 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
intake bolts being stuborn JOHNSHENOUDA Hotrodding Basics 15 10-15-2012 06:57 AM
intake bolts not lining up sam_bo3 Engine 3 01-28-2012 01:21 AM
SBC intake bolts Cape Cod Bob Engine 3 05-27-2008 06:36 AM
305 intake bolts malibus~most~wanted Engine 7 03-31-2008 05:56 PM
What bolts for intake manifold sabino56 Engine 4 08-01-2006 06:45 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.