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Old 01-13-2010, 10:42 PM
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Interesting spray results...solution?

Hey guys. So, I have no pictures, so I'll do my best to explain:

I recently received a Satajet 90-2 RP 1.3. Seems to spray okay. Our shop also switched to PPG's "Shopline" clear . Basecoat in question is PPG Deltron, 1:1 reduced.

Since we've switched to this clear, Im noticing something a little more than I have in the past. I apply my base, 2 or 3 medium wet coats, followed by an orientation coat. Then, clear with this Shopline speed crap.

Now, here's the problem...the depth of image is terrible. Even when the clear lays as flat as I can get a speed clear to lay, the clear dries and I get what results in almost a die-back appearance. It is not as dull, definetly still shiny, but lacking depth. There also appears to be some texture in the basecoat, very very fine and small. Reflection wise, it's almost like looking at the image at the top of this page....a little fussy, not super crisp.


I haven't had any time or suitable job to experiment with a different gun and this clear. Variables I can see are:

The gun, maybe I don't quite have it set up perfectly for the base?
Reducer...boss tells me to use 870 Reducer, even though the booth is at 70*.
and finally, the clear coat. Could the cheap speed production clear cause the appearance I am finding?

I only use this stuff on inners (which I spray alot of). Don't get me wrong, it doesn't look BAD, but if it were to look such a way on the outside of a godo quality car, I would be unhappy.

I guess I might have to spend a day experimenting with different pressures, and a better quality clear to see where my problem lies.

Anywho, any opinions on what I may be messing up with here?

Cheers.

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Old 01-13-2010, 10:55 PM
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I have used both the 661 shop line clear and the 2021 clear the 2021 has a lot more gross then the shopline 661
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:06 PM
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"Anywho, any opinions on what I may be messing up with here?"

Econo-clear, it is what it is. About the only thing to try is to cut down the hardener by 10%, yes it will still harden in the same time frame but this may allow it to flow a bit better. No matter what you do, it's still econo-clean.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:18 PM
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I have found the cheaper clear coats tend to spray out nicely, then as the solvents are leaving the clear looks "shrinky" like its shrank back.

This doesn't happen to me with more expensive clears, and I also only use the speed clear on door jams and spot repairs.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:58 PM
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Fluid tip is everything. The 1.3 is perfect for the basecoat. However, the clearcoat is a high solids fluid. Trying to spray the cc with the 1.3 fluid tip will atomize it too much causing air entrapment during application. Thatís why your getting that haze you described. For high solid clears you need a 1.5 fluid tip to reduce the atomization and the amount of air entrapment during application. Try a 1.5 gun setup and your problem should resolve itself.
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:05 AM
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hey guys, this is just a test to see if my computer is now working. sorry for the off topic post and sorry to the OP... posted...
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:35 AM
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I use the Omni clear on jams and cheapo jobs, not sure what the difference between Omni and Shopline are exactly, but I don't reduce the Omni, it's 2-1, I use a slow hardener for exterior, and fast hardener for jams.

I think it might be the reducer that is giving you die back, try spraying without reducing it.

If you are having problems with the base coats texture, try tack ragging it between coats to smooth it out before clearing.

The gun might have a air obstruction, or your spray technique is wrong, it's hard to say with the information I have, but a slower reducer in your base might help flatten out the coats better.

Last edited by cutterbond; 01-14-2010 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:18 AM
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You can try a better quality reducer.but quality cant be that important if the owner is experimenting with low quality clears and paints.Try to talk him into a compromise and try SPI universal clear.He'll like the cost and YOU"LL like the quality.You can only shine a turd so much....
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:18 AM
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I agree with DBM, his BC is OK, but his clear needs to be SPI.

Vince
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:00 PM
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Is this a DBC or DBU base?
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:32 PM
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I think he should use Extreme Clear by 4 Star. $82.00 with activator and that includes shipping.

Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1080
I have found the cheaper clear coats tend to spray out nicely, then as the solvents are leaving the clear looks "shrinky" like its shrank back.

This doesn't happen to me with more expensive clears, and I also only use the speed clear on door jams and spot repairs.
Thats EXACTLY what's happening!

When Im spraying, and even when Im done, it looks wicked. Next day when most of the solvents are gone, it looks like ****.

As for reducer, I do not reduce this clear...4:1. Maybe a capfull or two every now and then.

If it was my stuff, Id totally try out SPI, or use a nicer clear. However, the boss being who he his, and he happens to be a little.....quirky about things, wouldn't be down with anything but PPG.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjperotti
Fluid tip is everything. The 1.3 is perfect for the basecoat. However, the clearcoat is a high solids fluid. Trying to spray the cc with the 1.3 fluid tip will atomize it too much causing air entrapment during application. Thatís why your getting that haze you described. For high solid clears you need a 1.5 fluid tip to reduce the atomization and the amount of air entrapment during application. Try a 1.5 gun setup and your problem should resolve itself.
Hmmm...I have to admit, you are the first person I've heard say to use a 1.5 for clear...Usually a 1.3 Satajet 3000RP is my prefered gun. I know alot of guys use a 1.4, but never a 1.5. I'll have to try it sometime (although the only 1.5 gun I have is a primer gun).
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:17 PM
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There are two other factors too.

Could be using wrong temp activator.

Wrong air pressure. Speed Clears require lower pressures than other clears and are tempermental. Air pressure should be set 8-10psi.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:01 AM
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Pictures dont do any justice but SPI is right around 100.00 a gal with activator,and its comparable to the best clears,you wont have any more trouble ...the boss dont care,he isnt paying for your extra time so its up to you to get him to try it.You'll find out quick ,its the way to go.I use it on everything used cars to show cars it great stuff....Heres some day after pics.
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