iron performance heads for SBC - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2002, 07:32 PM
NAIRB's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: cimarron, ks
Posts: 1,658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Post

Hands down, the best flow per dollar available today is the Vortec iron cylinder head, these stockers rival many aftermarket racing heads in terms of flow, and they are almost half the price of a new set of Sportsman 2s, of course they are not as thick and heavy duty as a Sportsman, and they don't come with 2.02 1.600 sized valves, but you can make them a set of super flowing cylinder heads with the larger valves, and some valve guide reshaping and mild bowl work.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2002, 09:30 AM
chevyelc81's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Connecticut/Florida
Age: 31
Posts: 256
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

I, personally, would rather have the aluminum heads. They lighten up your car alot and they transfer heat so much better. You have cooler air being brought into your engine, which makes more power. Cooler air has more density which means more air molecules are entering your engine. When it sparks, there is a more powerful explosion. The only problem is, if your sitting in traffic to long and your engine starts to run hot, you have more of a chance of cracking the heads, thats one advantage of cast iron heads, they dont crack easy. But anyways, im just putting in my 2 cents worth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2002, 12:25 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: INDY
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

[quote]Originally posted by NAIRB:
<strong>Hands down, the best flow per dollar available today is the Vortec iron cylinder head, these stockers rival many aftermarket racing heads in terms of flow, and they are almost half the price of a new set of Sportsman 2s, of course they are not as thick and heavy duty as a Sportsman, and they don't come with 2.02 1.600 sized valves, but you can make them a set of super flowing cylinder heads with the larger valves, and some valve guide reshaping and mild bowl work.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have been told by my porting guy that the out of the box Vortec heads will need porting to get them to flow as good as stock ported iron heads. Thts is ported stocks are ebtter than out of the box so add some money for porting if you go with the Vortec.

Aluminum is better but I can alwasy do that later if the stock port job does not pan out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2002, 03:36 PM
NAIRB's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: cimarron, ks
Posts: 1,658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Post

The iron vortec head flows 230 cfm at .500" valve lift, box stock on the intake side, they flow around 150 cfm on the exhaust side. There is some improvement to be gained with porting, but not as much as you would gain with say a 186 style head. Your porting guy is wrong, these things flow very well just as they are, but there is some room for improvement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2002, 03:44 PM
NAIRB's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: cimarron, ks
Posts: 1,658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Post

Please note that the iron vortec head outflows the fastburn aluminum head on the intake side, out of the box, the exhaust flows better on the fast burn GM head, so if Vortecs are used, a little work is needed on the exhaust side. As far as aluminum is concerned, it's a great deal, but more costly, I think the biggest advantage to aluminum is it's repairability and weight savings. I don't think there is that big of an advantage in any other area, other than possibly heat dissipation advantages. You do have the problems associated with aluminum on cast iron, and the different expansion rates of the materials, and head gasket brinnelling. If I had unlimited money, I would go with aluminum heads of course. However, the real bargains out there are with the cast iron stuff.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2002, 09:57 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LA
Posts: 66
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

The Dart Iron Eagle heads are a great iron head for higher RPM applications. They can be had in 200, 215, & 230 cfm intake runner capacities, straight or angle plug, and down to 64cc combustion chambers. They do work better with open plenium intakes though. A lot of circle track racers use the heads where their class calls for iron heads only. Oh yeah, they are a good casting with lots of meat for additional porting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2002, 12:23 PM
F-1Rodder's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 517
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

I am a fan of the Vortec. All I have read (quite a bit) is that you should not touch them, no improvement will be realized. But this isn't about perfection, every engine is a compromise between torque and HP. This string started about price and power. If you know , tell me how you will get the power available from $430 Vortec's from any other source? With Vortec's you can build a 355 to 400hp plus for about $2000 including block, machine work,rotating assembly, heads, cam, rockers and carb.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2002, 01:39 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Midland ON Canada
Posts: 38
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

I have a 350 engine that has 10:1 pistons,medium lift cam and edelbrock perfomer intake.I was told the heads are so so.They are 69/70yr 350heads with 76cc chambers.Are they good or should I change valve size or go with something else
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2003, 07:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 291
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

Let's focus more on the bowl area...

How do the stock Vortec castings look in the bowl area? Do they really need to be touched here?

Any estimates as to power gains to be had here?

How does the choke diameter compare to the intake valve diameter?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2003, 04:39 AM
New Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chapman, Kansas U.S.A.
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

A company that makes two choices for heads..iron and aluminum is Pro Action, <a href="http://www.protopline.com" target="_blank">http://www.protopline.com</a> . Our sprint car team is allowed to use any 23 degree iron head ( rules change ) so we removed the GM "Bow Tie" heads in favor of pieces that have 210 cc runners. Cost per bare head is about $300.dollars each. For street use, I recommend iron over aluminum. More durable and they heat on a consistant basis when mated to an iron block. Fewer problems with corrosion too.

Important considerations about heads regards their application. Very few cars...even race cars are at full-throttle all the time. Look at the mid-range flow numbers instead of high end total cfm. If you lose velocity by having too big of runners then your fuel mixture will fall out of suspension and puddle. One must also think about the chamber design for full-burn of the mixture. Of course also think about matching the intake and carburetor ( fuel injection is better! ), the cam and exhaust.

Most engine builders look at the entire engine and it's application then match components to compliment each other. Just my thoughts on the subject...

Regards,
Gerry Dedonis
Kansas Racing Products Inc.

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: KSGerry ]</p>
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2003, 06:53 AM
engineczar's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Flowbench nirvana
Age: 52
Posts: 1,686
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 59 Times in 54 Posts
Post

Gerry hit on one major point about the fast burn heads and that's the chamber design. Flowing big numbers doesn't always equate to big horse power. The flow numbers between a cast iron vortec and a fast burn are very similar. The abilty of the fast burn to produce better swirl is it's key to better HP numbers than the vortec. The word from GM is don't mess with the fast burns chambers, all you can do is mess them up.
I've also been working on two cast head setups. One uses s/r torquers and the other uses GM 492 castings. Common sense and flow numbers would lead you to believe that the s/r's would be a better head but so far the 492's continue to make more HP on the dyno.
The moral of the story is don't get hung up on big flow numbers, the sum of the entire combination is what's important.
__________________
BSE Racing Engines
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2003, 06:12 AM
ztoy's Avatar
speed freak
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Circleville, Ohio
Age: 60
Posts: 229
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Post

So how do Dart Iron Eagle heads compare? They seem to do very well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2003, 07:28 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LA
Posts: 66
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

ZTOY: Some dirt limited late model (class requiring steel block and heads) teams are getting 700-750 HP out of their motors using the iron eagle heads. These are probably the 230 angle plug head with a lot of angle milling and CNC port work however. What other 23 degree iron head have you heard of producing these kind of HP numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2003, 06:24 AM
ztoy's Avatar
speed freak
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Circleville, Ohio
Age: 60
Posts: 229
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Post

cool, thats what I am running although I wish I was turning that king of hp with them! lol
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2003, 12:08 PM
F-1Rodder's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 517
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

Bill McCabe: I have been doing some research for an engine im building now and I will go with the steel vortec heads. couldn't justify the gains from using aluminum over the cast iron items. at $ 250.00 each ready to run this seems to be the best bargain going. What do others think.

I have built a 383 with the Vortec heads and could not agree with you more. They make huge power where you drive and beyond. For that extra 50 hp, you pay a large amount and use it very little in the aluminium head price range. Further, I have read that the aluminum fast burn is exactly the same head as the L31 Vortec except that it is aluminum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.