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abarli65 11-15-2012 02:17 PM

Jambing
 
Does anyone jamb the window channels?

I have a 65 mustang coupe almost ready for paint and I am contemplating how to go about it... If I were to paint the jambs and cut the fenders, could I also paint the window channels and then drop in the headliner and glass prior to spraying the entire car?

I imagine I can just tape off around the channels, lay down the bc/cc, then after the glass drops in, tape off the glass and rubber and scuff as deep as I can. would I have any lifting issues once I spray the car? I would not be concerned with lines since I would caulk and then cover with the window frame pieces.

I have been searching and have not been able to find any pictures or methods that cover this detail.

mr4speed 11-15-2012 05:22 PM

Not too sure what "window channels" you are talking about. Are they on the door or the drip channels by the inside of the roof. I don't know how you are set up but I always prefer to spray the whole car apart, they come out much better with all nice wet edges.

69 widetrack 11-15-2012 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr4speed (Post 1611698)
Not too sure what "window channels" you are talking about. Are they on the door or the drip channels by the inside of the roof. I don't know how you are set up but I always prefer to spray the whole car apart, they come out much better with all nice wet edges.

Mr. 4 speed is correct...you get a much better job if you paint the whole car...are the windshields out of the car and is this what your talking about? If the windshields are out and you want to paint the area that the windshield fits into, you can do that but why not mask off the window opening and spray the whole car at once.

69 widetrack 11-15-2012 05:41 PM

If you do plan on masking the windshield opening, lay a piece of masking tap along the inside edge (inside the car), leave some of the sticky part of the tape sticking out past the opening, so that when your looking at the windshield opening you can see masking tape and lay your masking paper into the opening...paint the car, install your glass and you won't have a paint edge.

abarli65 11-16-2012 02:07 PM

Yes, I am referring to the channels that the front windshield and back windows sit in.

The thought being that if I do the door jambs and window channels, and cut in everything else, I could get the doors, fenders, and glass installed prior to painting so I don't scratch anything. If I paint everything fully off the car, I may lose it if I were to put a nice scratch in my new paint.

69 widetrack 11-16-2012 03:11 PM

I've done it both ways and both ways do work...I prefer to paint the windshield areas with the glass out...it just makes for a better job and no tape line. I do understand why you would want to paint the car with the doors on especially if the color you are spraying is a metallic or pearl. Color control can be difficult in colors containing metallic's, spraying at exact same pressure, distance and gun setup are very important, but when it comes to the windshield area, paint it with the glass out and be careful putting them back in.

Ray

novafreek6872 11-16-2012 03:25 PM

I wouldnt worry too much about scratching things putting them back together...just paint it which ever way will give the best and most uniform job. I put my Nova back together fully painted, by myself (cept hood n decklid) and didnt scratch or chip anything... Just use lots of masking tape on the edges of panels and you wont have a problem.

69 widetrack 11-16-2012 03:53 PM

The color your painting is it a color with metallic's in it...that may make a difference...solid colors...not a problem.

mr4speed 11-17-2012 05:42 AM

I have done plenty of metallics apart without any vary at all. Have even shot the doors laying down a few times, instead of hanging them the way they would end up on the car. Now if your shooting a tri stage metallic that is a different story, would not shoot that apart because of too many variations with the mid coat. But if it is just a straight base clear all coming from the same mix, should not be an issue. Just as long as you spray beyond all your panels making sure you have full 3 coat coverage and don't end up with light coats toward your edges. On the very tough light metallics I will even go a fourth drop coat.

69 widetrack 11-17-2012 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr4speed (Post 1612205)
I have done plenty of metallics apart without any vary at all. Have even shot the doors laying down a few times, instead of hanging them the way they would end up on the car. Now if your shooting a tri stage metallic that is a different story, would not shoot that apart because of too many variations with the mid coat. But if it is just a straight base clear all coming from the same mix, should not be an issue. Just as long as you spray beyond all your panels making sure you have full 3 coat coverage and don't end up with light coats toward your edges. On the very tough light metallics I will even go a fourth drop coat.

I'm sure you have sprayed many metallic pieces off the car and all was well. I have done this many times in the past and if I was painting the car I would paint it in pieces. I have also shot Tri stage liquid crystal, blue base, with transparent orange over top in pieces, a deep green base with radiance green over top, all in pieces...the last one was over 1000 pieces shot seperately and it all worked out fine. You, as I, obviously have experience in painting. We understand, air pressure, temperature, reducer grade, (fast, medium, slow) distance from the panel, gun set up, drop coat, volume of paint...as you know, these will all have an effect on color in metallic's and varying some or any of these can change the lightness or darkness of the color. It is a common practice for experienced painters in collision shops to make gun adjustments to match factory colors in metallic's. Many people who post here don't have this knowledge that comes from the experience that over years of painting, we have had the fortune to garner and are asking us as professionals for help.

When these people post, I try to help them in the simplest way for them to get the best results, especially if they don't possess the years of experience it has taken me to enable me to do a tri stage in pieces. I'm not saying it can't be done...it can, but, The first engine I built didn't run 9's in the quarter mile, I didn't know enough as to how to build it, tolerances, matching parts, the importance of balancing, porting, polishing, suspension and so on...and I still have a lot to learn in this regard and there are a host of people on this site that would run circles around me. I'm learning.

If a person posts and has a question as to should he spray his windshield channels and install his glass before he paints the rest of the car and is afraid of scratching when assembling the pre painted pieces tells me that the experience that others may have is not present here and is asking a question not as to "can it be done" more to, "do I have to or should I or what is the easiest way to get an acceptable result with minimal potential for problems. Body Shops don't remove the windshield to paint a roof.

Lets look at the alternative, what if a person painting with minimal experience is painting a silver car in pieces and all we tell him is "I have done plenty of metallics apart without any vary at all. Have even shot the doors laying down a few times, instead of hanging them the way they would end up on the car", and the person sprays the car in pieces over several days and somewhere in the process the pressure on his gun varies by 4 pounds, or he changes the volume of paint coming out or whatever, conditions are not the same. Will the color be the same? In metallic's the correct answer is a flat out NO! If you paint a car in a solid color, you can virtually use a garden hose and a vacuum cleaner and the color will remain the same, not true with metallic's.

NovaFreak gave the original post great advice about taping edges so as not to scratch when assembling a vehicle painted in pieces and this is the type of advice that I feel should be given. Consider this, if the OP new what you new he wouldn't be posting, correct?

I've seen your work and you are an excellent painter and please don't be offended by what I'm posting, I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible so the OP can get the experience and confidence in the future, that we have now and to not even think about should I or shouldn't I paint the windshield channels before I paint the entire car.

Sorry for being long winded, but I needed to explain why I try and keep it simple and pass on the knowledge that has taken me over 30 years to attain then simply say NO PROBLEM.

Ray

mr4speed 11-17-2012 08:54 AM

Very well said Ray, and no I am not offended. Like you explain in your post we have a lot of experience painting so it does come second nature to guys who do it quite often and you are correct when pointing a newbie in a different direction then you or I would go in. You are 100% right that I did make it sound easier than it may actually be. So in a nutshell it certainly would be easier and more controlling to paint the car together if it were a metallic base.

69 widetrack 11-17-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr4speed (Post 1612270)
Very well said Ray, and no I am not offended. Like you explain in your post we have a lot of experience painting so it does come second nature to guys who do it quite often and you are correct when pointing a newbie in a different direction then you or I would go in. You are 100% right that I did make it sound easier than it may actually be. So in a nutshell it certainly would be easier and more controlling to paint the car together if it were a metallic base.

Thank You, I try and put myself in their shoes and remember my own learning curve...It didn't happen overnight and it's not done yet...I was fortunate in a way, I didn't learn from just one painter, I looked after a lot of body shops with respect to paint problems and it wasn't uncommon for me to call a painter in different shop when I didn't have the answer to solve a painter's problem in another shop.

The cool thing is, no matter how long we are in the trade, things will change and we never stop learning.

Larry123 11-17-2012 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abarli65 (Post 1611635)
Does anyone jamb the window channels?

I have a 65 mustang coupe almost ready for paint and I am contemplating how to go about it... If I were to paint the jambs and cut the fenders, could I also paint the window channels and then drop in the headliner and glass prior to spraying the entire car?

I imagine I can just tape off around the channels, lay down the bc/cc, then after the glass drops in, tape off the glass and rubber and scuff as deep as I can. would I have any lifting issues once I spray the car? I would not be concerned with lines since I would caulk and then cover with the window frame pieces.

I have been searching and have not been able to find any pictures or methods that cover this detail.

I have “hobby” painted many early Mustangs; I would not jamb the window frame at all. Install your headliner, then the windshield and back glass. Just mask the glass and rubber and scuff around the edges prior to painting. You will not have any lifting issues. Install the trim moldings after you paint.

69 widetrack 11-17-2012 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry123 (Post 1612298)
I have “hobby” painted many early Mustangs; I would not jamb the window frame at all. Install your headliner, then the windshield and back glass. Just mask the glass and rubber and scuff around the edges prior to painting. You will not have any lifting issues. Install the trim moldings after you paint.

I disagree Larry123, if you don't put paint down your asking for problems down the road, primer alone will not protect your car from the elements. Primer is porous, catalyzed or not, actual paint has a tighter molecule and will resist moisture much more readily than any primer and the rubber is only a seal for the glass, not that fraction of an inch that is part of the roof panel. If primer was an excellent sealant, we sure wouldn't need to use etch or epoxy primer would we, all we would need is high build and good to go...WRONG.

abarli65 11-17-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69 widetrack (Post 1612062)
The color your painting is it a color with metallic's in it...that may make a difference...solid colors...not a problem.

I am spraying the solid candyapple red from '66. It is not a "candy", but a solid color.

I could paint all the pieces off the car in my home booth, then roll the main body into a booth and shoot... I don't have enough room in my single bay to be able to walk around it with enough room to shoot paint.


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