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Old 09-20-2005, 08:48 PM
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Jb weld stuff

I am working on replacing so rocker panals on my 77 chevy and i was wondering how that jb weld stuff worked. I have heard that it was better then welding because it does worp like welds do. let me know

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Old 09-20-2005, 11:06 PM
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It is just a quality epoxy. For body panels there is no replacement for welding.
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:12 AM
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I'm going to take exception to Willy's statement. If the body panels aren't stressed much epoxy is a wonderful alternative. Epoxy can be stronger than the steel when applied correctly, so it can be just as strong as welding. It MUST be a quality product like JB Weld (which has a high metal particle content), the surfaces MUST be perfectly cleaned and prepped, and you MUST allow full curing time before stressing the component. Many aircraft are literally "glued" together with epoxies and resins, especially composite panels. They are usually riveted and epoxied, but the rivets are usually there like nails in furniture -- just there to hold until the glue cures. Welded parts are ready for immediate use -- epoxied parts need at least 12 hours to cure, and 24 hours would be better.

I've used epoxy in many areas that are hard to reach with a welder, but only on lightly stressed parts that had over 70% of the original metal still intact. Like covering rust through areas on unit body "frame" rails, but only when the rest of the rail was solid (most unit bodies have specific areas that can collect moisture and rust through without affecting the entire rail). I've repaired smaller holes in body panels with epoxied on patches (under 4" square).

Cut the rusted edges out, bend in the good edges, sand, prime, and paint (primer doesn't keep moisture out, you have to paint to prevent future rust), sand again, wipe with paint thinner, then cut a metal patch to fit flush. Mix epoxy and put around hole, press on patch. Drill and rivet if needed to hold the patch in place. When the epoxy cures (12+ hours later) you can sand or grind it just like metal (it will grind down much faster, more like fiberglass, so be careful!). The rivets can be ground off and holes filled with epoxy or body filler -- they've doen their job!

If the part is a stressed metal part you need to do plan the job well. Make sure there is adequate surface area for the epoxy to bond to. For a large panel, say a quarter panel replacement (or a 1/2 quarter patch panel), you need about 1/2" overlap. Fit the panel then drill for rivets or screws first. Then mix epoxy and place panel. You need enough rivets/screws to hold the panel in place and flat along the seam, but you only have about 1/2 hour at best to work after mixing the epoxy. You can get slower curing epoxies, but they will need 24 hours to cure. This is best done with a helper if the panel is very large. If you mess up, it's just as much trouble as cutting a welded piece back off. I'd make this repair on bare metal, not painted. Final sand with something like 150-240 grit sand paper, and wipe down with paint thinner before applying epoxy. It would be nice if you could get to the back side and prime/paint after the repair, but that applies to welding also. Just can't be done for some repairs, like the rockers.

If you're talking about rocker covers, or outer rockers, the epoxy should be fine. The inner rocker is the stress carrying member, the outer covers are lightly stressed in comparison. Make sure everything (BOTH surfaces to be epoxied) is clean and dry first and you should be fine. Of course I wouldn't epoxy major frame/stressed areas -- like it's just not safe to epoxy suspension arms at home -- but most external body parts (even floors) aren't stressed to much for good epoxies when adequate preparation and overlap has been accomplished.
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:20 AM
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I've used it a few times on my intake manifold, I over tightened the carb bolts and stripped them. I mixed up the JB weld and epoxided in 4 studs. That stuff is strong
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:30 AM
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I think epoxies are great is special applications, but I am going to take Willies side in this application. What I envision this post about is "Hey I have some rust, is smearing JB weld over it better than welding in (and possibly warping) a new panel.

I say no. Actually if given the choice I would weld a ROCKER no matter what.

I think "JB weld" is an excellent filler but have not had that great of luck with it as a bonding adhesive.

Rich
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willys36@aol.com
It is just a quality epoxy. For body panels there is no replacement for welding.
Urethane panel adhesives are an excellent replacement for welding to install body panels. I work for a company that builds truck and tractor cabs and other components and we have done some prototype work using urethane adhesives instead of welding. The stuff is amazing and it lasts as long as whatever it's glued to. We have even used urethane glass adhesives to glue two pieces of metal together and could NOT pull them apart, we destroyed the items that were joined trying to get them apart but not the adhesive joint. When I do the floor pans in my Monte they're getting glued in.
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Old 09-21-2005, 08:39 AM
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rrmccabe -- the biggest problem is not cleaning the area good enough. It should be slightly rough and thoroughly clean -- prepped about like you would for paint only the surface can be rougher (150-200 grit sand paper is enough). The least little bit of oil will prevent or weaken bonding -- even finger prints.

The urethane adhesives are urethane based two part epoxies. Tougher epoxies like JB Weld have a high metallic content, urethane of course has none.
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:02 AM
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JB is good stuff, I've "repaired" a couple of oil pans with it.
But, I would not use it on a panel ( I'd think it gets too hard to flex a bit), there are epoxies made for that purpose out there.
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Old 09-23-2005, 12:56 PM
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Oh my god, you absolutely do not want to use JB Weld to install a rocker panel, that is absurd. End of story from someone with a 66 Corvette full restoration in the shop as well as a 68 first gen Camaro full restoration underway.

3M and Fusor do make panel adhesives specifically made for panel replacement. In my opinion welding is prefered on a unibody as the rocker is a stressed and does flex.
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Old 09-23-2005, 08:08 PM
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ya dude, weld it. it takes more time but its way worth it in the long run. jb weld is strong stuff, but over time it can crack and crumble.
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Old 09-24-2005, 08:40 AM
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Don't know about that dude???

I have NEVER seen JB weld fail...crack...or...crumble...ever....so in what appliction did you use it and how long did it last before it failed??


Tazz
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Old 09-25-2005, 08:45 AM
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I have never seen it fail either in the right application. Its great stuff when you need it. Building up a part, filing etc. I just don't think its a replacement for fusor on body panels.

If its something I can weld or build up with weld, thats my first choice.

Rich
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Old 09-25-2005, 09:21 AM
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this is kinda funny cause i think in about 5 years you will be seeing a lot more adhesive systems for panel replacement. it is a technology that is going to be used in collision repair more and more. JB weld isn't really made for panel replacement, there are bond/rivet systems out there. it's good for guys who dont have welders and it is becoming more popular. as long as they are used in the right applications i don't think there is a 'better' method of the two. they have been building airplanes this way for ages and there are way more stresses on an airframe than an automobile. soon the old farts will be whining about glued on panels the way they whine about glass vs. steel bodies.
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Old 09-25-2005, 09:37 AM
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Here's a link to Norton Speedgrip.
http://www.nortonautomotive.com/Data...00000000004285

The bodyshop guys that I have talked to say that they use this to install patch panels, etc. but they do say that they still weld structural components like rocker panels.

JB weld is a product with a good reputation, and I have heard all kinds of "life-saver" comments from those that have used it. I've heard of it being used in a lot of places ... but as a panel adhesive is news to me

HTH,
Don

Edit: I just tested that link after posting and it wasn't working. It is now.

Last edited by 66GMC; 09-25-2005 at 09:49 AM. Reason: Link doesn't work
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Old 09-29-2005, 12:04 PM
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I'm an AMC/Rambler guy, and I can't say how other bodies are built, but I do understand how AMC unit bodies are constructed. The OUTER ROCKER is mostly a cover. There is also an INNER ROCKER that is the stressed part. If there is a pinch weld along the bottom of the rocker where the outer cover meets an under car square section the outer is most likely a cover and not designed as a stress carrying member. AMC wasn't known for much, but they were the first US company to adopt unit body construction on a large scale and the earliest to use it (1941). Body construction was usually on a par or above other manufacturers up through the late 70s. Most other manufacturers bodies are constructed using the same methods AMC pioneered, and should be pretty much the same way.

It's real funny how Chrysler (who bought AMC out in 1987) used to advertise the "cab forward" design of the LHS cars. AMC pioneered that with the Pacer, but didn't call it such. The newest Magnum bodies were highly touted for having body rails running bumper to bumper similar to a full frame vehicle. AMC started building their bodies that way, 1941-62s (63 in the American line)have continuous bumper to bumper rails and are some of the stoutest unit bodies ever made. They went to the "three box" and "uniside" system starting in 1963, and just about every other manufacturer STILL uses that same construction method, even most Japanese makes.
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