Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/)
-   Transmission - Rearend (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/transmission-rearend/)
-   -   just rebuilt 4L60e locks up stall engine when place in gear (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/just-rebuilt-4l60e-locks-up-stall-engine-when-place-gear-194892.html)

teddybeartruck 03-21-2011 02:56 PM

just rebuilt 4L60e locks up stall engine when place in gear
 
I rebuilt my 4L60e over the last few weeks. Careful breakdown, pictures, cleaning, took my time following all the steps putting it all back together. But apparently I missed something. After filling the transmission, idling, checking and filling somemore (while in park) I finially placed it in reverse to start the process of working through the gears. It locked up and killed the engine. I've tried in neutral to drive, same thing.
What is the first thing I need to think about and research? Or what may be causing the problem? What did I miss? Thanks in advance for everyones help.

Teddybear

1994 Chevy S10 PU 4wd 4.3 Vortec 4L60e Vin "W"

richard stewart 3rd 03-21-2011 09:17 PM

Hi

Are you 100% sure you have the valve body bolts in the right places? There is one longer bolt that if put in the wrong place it will protrude threw the valve body and hit the sunshell binding it.
Use a multimeter to try & figure out what the issue is.
Start with the internal wiring of the transmission, check each wire for continuity with the multimeter, check the connections ensure they are not shorting to ground or to another wire.
Rich

teddybeartruck 03-21-2011 09:39 PM

Hi Richard, thanks for the beginning checks I will do tomorrow. Just for clarity, the engine stops with a sudden jolt when placed in gear. All shalfs truned freely with each step while rebuilding and installing. However, I did pull the valve body again just before installing trans in truck. Missed a ball bearing. I found it on the bench and located the exact spot it was missing from.
Could the 2-4 band be binding somehow? Is it possible the servo pin is jaming it, or binding the band? Looking for more ideas. I haven't been back to study the operation the servo and band yet.
teddybear

Crosley 03-21-2011 10:07 PM

The internal parts could be welded solid and not stall the engine IF the converter is operating correctly.

You have a problem in the pump or valve body.

Lock up valve with springs in the pump is a common item installed backwards by a Newbie DIY person

Is this converter a fresh rebuild or old re-used converter?

teddybeartruck 03-22-2011 07:22 AM

Trans locks up and stalls the engine on shift
 
To answer your replies, (thanks for them), I have not run the transmission except in park and neutral (truck has not left the shop).

It is possible of course. However, I did follow instructions and compared with pictures as I completed the process of installing the valves.

I found no signs of metal shavings in my fluid when I first drained and disassembled the transmission, so I completely drained (overnight) the converter, refilled and reinstalled. Attached it to the trans first, with everything spinning freely as far as I know.

During the tare down, I found two clutches at bare metal, a broken internal servo spring, a stuck valve (don't remember which one), but overall, the crud buildup was not bad, and as I mentioned, found no great signs of metal shavings, only the normal magnet accumulation.

Is there a possibility of the 2-4 band locking up (but I guess that would not effect shifting into reverse)? Just trying to think through the process, trying to recall the steps and maybe what I did wrong.

I would like to get as much info as possible before pulling the trans from the truck again.

thanks for your help.

teddybear

Crosley 03-22-2011 07:37 AM

When the trans is placed into any gear and the vehicle is not moving, no gear train parts are rotating inside the trans case.

That is why I posted the converter is the cause, unless you have an engine problem that causes the engine to stall.

If the converter clutch is applied for some reason, you put the trans into gear, the engine dies.

If the engine has problems, that may cause it to stall out when placed into gear

teddybeartruck 03-22-2011 08:41 AM

Convert problem
 
I can see how it can be the converter, that's what I thought first and that is what it feels like. The the engine does not really "stall" as much as it just binds and stop dead. But what would have caused the converter to fry between taking it out and putting it back in with fresh fluid; unless maybe it did not have enough fluid on startup?

The initial problem was slipping clutches.

Teddybear

geezer69 03-22-2011 08:46 AM

yep,the first thing to come to mind is the converter,id dang near bet on it.

geezer69 03-22-2011 08:48 AM

yep,the first thing to come to mind is the converter,id dang near bet on it.if the engine runs and responds well it shouldnt die in gear.

teddybeartruck 03-22-2011 09:51 AM

Convert locks stalling engine
 
Well, I will pull it out and find another. Thanks, and I'll follow up on this post when I get it running.

Teddybear

pschmitt_07 03-22-2011 08:48 PM

there are one way clutches in the transmission & if you put them in backwards they wont freewheel...

cobalt327 03-22-2011 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teddybeartruck
After filling the transmission, idling, checking and filling somemore (while in park) I finially placed it in reverse to start the process of working through the gears. It locked up and killed the engine. I've tried in neutral to drive, same thing.
What is the first thing I need to think about and research? Or what may be causing the problem?

My experience is more w/the TH350C, but the FIRST thing I would check is to see if the TCC solenoid ground supply circuit was shorted between the PCM and the solenoid, or if the solenoid has failed internally. Then I'd check for the solenoid fluid exhaust passage being blocked off w/a piece of gasket or sealer, etc. You'll have to drain the pan and remove it. :P

You should check the TCC apply valve for being stuck in the "on" position- you did mention a sticky valve in the valve body...

The only other non TC thing I can come up w/is the torque converter clutch valve being stuck.

If this all gets you nowhere, then I'd be suspecting the TC.

teddybeartruck 03-23-2011 06:24 AM

Engine Stalls dies when shift after rebuild
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt327
My experience is more w/the TH350C, but the FIRST thing I would check is to see if the TCC solenoid ground supply circuit was shorted between the PCM and the solenoid, or if the solenoid has failed internally. Then I'd check for the solenoid fluid exhaust passage being blocked off w/a piece of gasket or sealer, etc. You'll have to drain the pan and remove it. :P

You should check the TCC apply valve for being stuck in the "on" position- you did mention a sticky valve in the valve body...

The only other non TC thing I can come up w/is the torque converter clutch valve being stuck.

If this all gets you nowhere, then I'd be suspecting the TC.


Thanks for the clarity. I'll repost when I find the results. Teddybear

Kawabuggy 03-24-2011 12:11 PM

I agree with Cobalt-I'd drop the pan and be looking at the TCC lock-up solenoid. Before you drop the pan, go ahead and buy a new solenoid. They are cheap, and should be a part of any quality rebuild.

If you forgot to tighten the bolts that hold the L/U solenoid in place-that could be the problem as well. From my reading on how L/U works in these units, it is actually fluid pressure inside the converter that prevents the L/U clutches from engaging. Then, when the L/U solenoid is energized, it basically creates a leak path (bleed valve) that allows the pressure to bleed off and then the clutches apply. That L/U solenoid being faulty internally (stuck open) can cause this as well as if the solenoid is not bolted down firmly, or possibly the o-ring on the end is missing, or damaged. Get a new solenoid, drop the pan, and change it out. I'm hoping that will solve your issues.

teddybeartruck 03-26-2011 09:17 AM

Torque Converter binds when shifted - Problem Solved
 
Well guys, thanks again for the input. Getting enough to think about before tearing into the trans made a difference.
I first tested the wiring for shorts by checking each pin to ground the top of the plug is hard to get to, even with the cab already jacked up. I tested each pin by feel. Later, with the pan off, confirmed that the one pin showing a short was indeed the ground wire OK.
By the way, on these trucks especially, 94 S10 4wd, it is a good idea to install a drain plug while the pan is off. There are after market ones available; I made my own.
Someone suggested that the valve may have been put in backwards. This is a common mistake for newbies like myself. In fact, that was the problem. Looking at the diagram for the pump, of the two valves one is spring in first, the other is after the valve. Apparently, glancing down at the diagram I started on one and ended up on the other, thus reversing the valve and the spring.
I have put it all back together, run the truck for about 100 miles and everything feels great.
Thanks again for all the input.

Teddybear


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.