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Old 05-14-2009, 07:43 AM
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Kalamazoo horizontal bandsaw

A few days ago I bought a nice old Model 41 Kalamazoo saw. At some point in time somebody had replaced the motor. Right now it has a Baldor 220v 1725 rpm 6.2 amp motor and as near as I can tell, 1HP. The pulley is not the correct one, it's just a single groove @ 3" in diameter. I have found that the SFPM is just way too slow. The saw input pulley is a triple cone pulley of 5.5+6+6.5 inches in diameter. The saw drive reduction is 40:1 (!) That is, it takes 40 revs of the input pulley for the band wheel to make a complete rev. The band wheels are 14".

I need a triple pulley for the motor (7/8" shaft) and I'm trying to figure out the SFPM of the band with a 4+5+6 pulley I found. The grooves would align like this:

4 into the 6.5
5 into the 6
6 into the 5.5

Ideally I'd like a motor pulley to have the same increments as the saw input pulley (5.5+6+6.5) but the old motor and pulley is long gone.

My target SFPM should be higher than what the pulleys on the saw are allowing right now. How the heck do I calculate the band speed (SFPM) from all this? Can somebody help?

Last edited by C-10; 05-14-2009 at 12:57 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:55 AM
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circumference = 2*pi*r; your 14inch drive wheel has a circumference of ~44" (2 * 3.14 * 7). multiply that number times your rpm to get sipm. you'll need to know what rpm your motor runs at.

so: motor rpm * reduction ratio * 44 = sipm; divide by 12 to get sfpm

for example, assume it's a 1725 motor and a 40:1 ratio:

1725 * .025 * 44 = 1898 sipm = 158 sfpm
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:35 AM
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Just use pulley diameter to determine what you need.



Kinda pricey but a quick search on E-bay came up with several that have a 7/8" bore (step pulley).

Last edited by oldred; 05-14-2009 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:35 PM
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Ok, I think the fog is clearing.

Oldred, you are absolutely correct. As well as Jcoby with the math skills.

So, The way I am interprting this is as follows

Motor- 1725rpm
The three speeds from the step pulleys is my transmission:
1- .6154 low
2- .833 med
3- 1.099 high
The saw worm drive is my rear differential at 40:1
The band wheels are my tires at a 44" runout. (I used dia. * 3.1415= 43.981")

There are actually TWO reductions working at any given speed (the pulley set AND the saw head worm drive 40:1) except when in high gear (the 6 into the 5.5 pulley) there is an overdrive.

So for First gear low speed: 1725(motor) times .6154(first gear first reduction) times .025(40:1 differential second reduction) times 43.981 = 1167.22 divided by 12 = 97 SFPM.

Second gear: 131.66 SFPM
Third gear (OD) 173.70 SFPM

Is my math ok? Am I ok?

Why am I so anal about this? I just bought two new Bi-Metal Blades at 50 bucks a pop and they specify a speed for a given material and I'm a gonna stick to it.

Last edited by C-10; 05-14-2009 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-10
Why am I so anal about this? I just bought two new Bi-Metal Blades at 50 bucks a pop and they specify a speed for a given material and I'm a gonna stick to it.

Your blades will thank you for it by lasting a long time!

This is one place where faster is definitly not better but I had a hard time convincing some of the fellas at the shop, seems they not only wanted to run the darn thing faster but wanted to lean on the saw to try to force it to cut faster. It's hard to convince some guys that cutting a piece of 4130 steel is a bit different than cutting a pine 2x4!

Do have a coolant pump?
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:23 PM
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No sir, no coolant pump- yet. This is on my list of to-do's. Was looking at the misting systems, a little steep for the wallet. May end up fab-ing a tub and going with a flood coolant like a Valcool or something. Any suggestions on coolant and pumps?

Before I cut anything I need to get the speed right. I'm still not sure of my lousy math.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:11 PM
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Running slower SFM generally doesn't hurt, but faster will kill blades quickly. Shop I worked for just had a simple cheap plastic industrial submersible 110v pump (like a bilge pump) in a tub, to a hose with a valve above the blade to control the flow. Worked for years.

First couple of cuts on a new blade should be made at 1/2 the normal downfeed rate to "season" the blade. (Tip from the supplier and on the bi-metal blade tag). Whoever looks at the instructions right
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:29 AM
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On my cheapo saw I have a small plastic 12 volt pump that was meant for something in the medical industry, I have no idea what. I have a buddy with a slightly bigger saw who uses a fountain pump from Lowes along with some plastic tubing for a total cost of less than $40. Enco has some really good 110 volt flood type systems for less than $100 that include everything needed to set up the system.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...AKA=SL296-2030
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:43 PM
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Harbor Freight has 3 submersible pumps under $13.00. It might be a cheap way to get your coolant system going. All that being said, most people I have talked to use the small horizontal band saws without coolant. Most people think it is a pain to keep and maintain the coolant if the saw is used infrequently. The other side of that coin is your blades will last longer if you use your saw frequently. Personally, I'm going to get a coolant system working and see if it really is a pain
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:40 PM
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Just checked the math and jcoby is right on, a 1:1 ratio will get you 158 ft/min surface speed.

I would suggest a 3/4/5" step pulley instead of the 4/5/6" one you have now to get a combination 80'/105'/143' SFM speed ratios. If your going to run without coolant and plain blades I would step down to a 2/3/4 to get blade speed of 48'/79'/114' SFM so your blades last.

If your going to use it all the time I would recommend a flood system with a pump/tank as being the most effective, but for intermittent use a air mist system and total loss tankless design is less troublesome and a lot less smelly.

If you don't have air or a coolant delivery system and you only doing light work with it just get a 2/3/4 and run it dry, it works just fine and is easier to keep clean and the slow speeds mean less wear and tear on the equipment...not to mention being able to use cheaper plain non-bimetal blades. For something thats going to sit in the corner for months on end not being used, a dry bandsaw is a lot less trouble and you won't have any corrosion problems. If you plan on cutting tool steel or stainless bar stock buy a bimetal blade and run it on the lowest speed (48 SFM), keep it for the tough stuff only and it will last you for years.

Dry running a bandsaw has a lot of advantages if your not in a hurry, a simple circular wire brush chip sweeper running with the blade will keep the chips out of the kerf just fine.

To summarize here are your speeds with various pulley sizes;

2/3/4" = 48, 79, 114 SFM

3/4/5" = 79, 105, 143 SFM

4/5/6" = 97, 132, 172 SFM

Good luck.
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:18 AM
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Thanks gentlemen for the helpful suggestions.

I could see myself having a few different pulleys to cover the speeds for my projects. I like the idea of the misting systems vs. the flood coolant for cleanliness. I believe first and formost speed and feed rates have to be right. The price of a blade will remind me of that with each use.

A 4-5-6 pulley will be good as long as a coolant system is used, I think.


Was poking around tonight and found some side to side movement in the hinge. About an 8th inch. A very light pry with a screwdriver will move it easily. There's no slop in the hinge that would let it change angle, just some side to side movement. I have to investigate that. It also has a spring that 'used to' assist with lifting a 50lb saw head that is now weak in the knees.

Of course with being a 40 year old or so saw I suppose it can have something to do with this. Can't complain.

I should get a photo or two posted. The closest thing I've seen to this saw is an 816c Kalamazoo. Mine is a model 41. Searches came up with nothing. It's had three paint jobs in it's existence... Factory 'machine gray' then a pukey green color and now a half a-- ford engine blue color. That has to go.
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