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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2010, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric32
Thanks cobalt I will have to check with all of them. Also carsavycook my carb is a holley 600 1850s model and I am not running it stock out of the box. I went up to 70 jets in the front and 76 in the rear and running the silver spring for secondary's. The stock jetting I figured would be to lean for my build cause my Dad has the same exact carb on a 302 with the stock jetting and it was just right for his motor but from reading all the chevy magazines and my holley tuning book the more power an engine makes depending on the setup will require bigger jet sizes from say 65 on the primary.

I did try 69 but it seemed like it was a little lean so went to 70. Plugs are NGK 6630 which is the same range as an autolite 26 which I had before the NGK plugs and they look the same gapped at .045. Also I have not had any pinging going on with my vacuum advance set where it's at now. I will leave it there for now and even getting on it going up a steep hill in drive there is no pinging or else I would not have it hooked up at this point. I'm not stupid to leave me motor to detonate like that. I have seen pictures of what happens to a motor over time or what could happen in an instant. thanks guys
Eric
Eric, Thank you for this information, as it may help us figure out the "miss".

Personally, I feel Holley carbs are only good for wide open throttle applications, not street use. Owning one is like owning a Volkswagen, you have to tinker/work with them all of the time.

That being said, You may need to adjust, or change the pump cam, for the accelerator pump to give it a quicker shot of fuel in that rpm range.

It's a long ways from Ohio, to California. The more information you can give would be helpful.

As a side note; My father was born and raised in Akron, and I still have some extended family members living around there.

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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2010, 09:44 AM
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eric and everyone,,,

here's a link to my favorite, most comprehensive, well written "how to diagnose" series of articles for anything on a car...
(scroll down and take a peek)

http://www.aa1car.com/carleyware/library.htm

(includes a mis-fire article (scroll way down) that does have info applicable to a carbed motor)

Last edited by red65mustang; 04-18-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
eric and everyone,,,

here's a link to my favorite, most comprehensive, well written "how to diagnose" series of articles for anything on a car...
(scroll down and take a peek)

http://www.aa1car.com/carleyware/library.htm

(includes a mis-fire article (scroll way down) that does have info applicable to a carbed motor)
Good link 'red', I scrolled past that link the first time.

You only really 'get' what you have been told, not necessarily when read.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2010, 02:51 PM
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Hello Redmustang65 hey no offense taken . Ok first off the distributor I have is not an oem one but an after market one. Can't tell you the name cause it never had one stamped on it. The distributor also came with an adjustable vacuum advance canister on it. The one that is on there came with it as well.

The cap and coil is brand new off of an hei distributor I got from Skip white on ebay. Supposed to be 50,000 volt coil. I had previously a proform cap and coil on my truck and I still had the same miss. Ok redmustang I hope I don't sound stupid here but what ground wire are you talking about on the distributor? Only two I know of is one under the cap from the coil and the middle wire between the red and yellow ones.

I am guessing your talking about the middle wire which is a ground wire that plugs up with the other two wires beside it into your cap correct? So how do I hook up another ground too it cause then I would have to yank out the middle wire and damage the metal prong that holds it in place in the wire housing. The housing is flimsy as it is.

The other two wires of course you know would still have to be hooked up to work. Sorry how I worded it, I did not mean anything just did'nt know how to word it correctly. Thanks also for the link. I will make a 14 gauge wire to hook up to my battery just need a little more help for hooking up wise and which ground wire your talking about. Thanks again
Eric
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2010, 06:10 PM
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His suggestion is to ground the distributor body to the battery "-" post w/a jumper.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2010, 09:23 PM
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So hows things, been in the mountains for a couple of days and missed so much here. from all I have read I can only say that 30 minutes on a dyno with a sun 1115 scope and it would be Miller time. The next best thing..... although it's not real close would be a wide band o2 sensor. The misfire, is it at a light throttle cruise or just when you pick it up after having had a sort of lax period almost like a coast. It's really hard to know exactly when the problem occurs from here, the conditions in the engine change so dramatically with a slight change in load. You would likely save yourself a lot of grief and time having a performance tech actually drive it so he or she can identify exactly what's going on. You might need to dance around a air bleed or a power valve, if you had a scope you could easily and quickly eliminate any secondary ignition problems and a good scope will also tip you as to a lean condition in the time line. This is however a good detective story.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 08:08 AM
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Ok I understand about the ground strap now. I can use an alligator clip and clip it on part of the body and then too my battery and see what that does so would that work good then? Bill the miss happens at warm up the most but also at cruising at any rpm and it happens in no particular condition. The miss at cruising is hardly noticeable and engine still runs smooth. It does not happen constant it just comes and goes here and there but still happens everyday. Most noticeable at idle. I hope that makes sense. I don't have any place around to be able to measure the air fuel ratio of my carb or anything.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric32
I can use an alligator clip and clip it on part of the body and then too my battery and see what that does so would that work good then?
Yes.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 08:42 AM
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eric,
with absolutely no distributor facts available,,,I'm not comfortable enough to tell you to do anything...

there are roughly 20 versions of the HEI electrical/mechanical design sold today...
(my $.02,,some of those are truly "junk" electronics for operating amps and robust design based on my experience)

illustration:
it had a Proform cap and coil so it might well be just a $57 retail Proform "throw away" dist?????
(not even worth the time to test,,,if it hick ups throw away the whole unit and go get another one or MUCH smarter yet get a better built electronics dist)....

most of the parts chains do carry those proform units,,,carefully visually compare yours to one...

point/counterpoint:
I will having nothing to do with the proform unit because they don't publish any spec's at all (not even a wiring diagram)....
( based on the way low $25 approx replacement ign module cost it is likely only 2-3 amps operating which is 36watts versus stock hei 5amps 60watts for plenty of coil input reserve)
but...
many HR members have reported good results using them on "stock" or very mild motors...
(we live in a throw away society so sell a elcheapo throw away dist is smart marketing)

re:grounding
what you want is a wire direct to the module itself ground pick up point...
illustrations only:
some have a capacitor/condensor screw and do pick up ground from the dist body...
some wire off the HEI lug to a common wire combo module/coil ground...
some have a independent module wire ground ....

anywho,,,more better "0" resistance copper grounds to the batt neg can only help any/all electrical devices on a car and your ign module may/might possibly ground to the dist body....

go ahead and make the jumper (batt neg to the dist metal body) a permanent install,,,if nothing else it will help disappate errant and "weird" electric forms under the cap if they are present (like occasional AC spikes coming from the alt causing the misfire?)...
if it does cure the miss go get the alt tested,,diode may be failing or just a bad diode...

I do agree with Bill,,,the smartest move at this point is to get some experienced eyes to atleast look over the dist to tell you what you do have (to post here)....

Last edited by red65mustang; 04-19-2010 at 08:47 AM.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:06 AM
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The 4-pin module grounds through the screws into the distributor body. Barring any weird conditions where the screw wouldn't contact the steel sleeve that the screw holes of the module contain, or that the threads of the screws would somehow be insulated from the threads in the distributor body (both unlikely), the grounding of the distributor body to the "-" terminal of the battery w/a jumper cable will be sufficient to eliminate that as the cause of the intermittent miss.

If the module and/or coil is suspect, just change them- there's no good reason to toss the entire distributor. I'd suggest using a Delco module and an OEM coil for testing purposes. But I seriously doubt they will be the cause.

I would also suggest installing a fresh set of plugs before you do any in-depth chasing of the miss.

Last edited by cobalt327; 04-19-2010 at 09:37 AM.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:16 AM
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Eric, did you mention someone was going to stop by w/some test equipment, or was that another thread I'm thinking of?

In any event, there's nothing here that you can't do yourself. It will take patience (that you have more of than your helpers, it seems! lol), perseverance and maybe a couple bucks- but this is not beyond your abilities.

Although pulling out the "big guns"- i.e. seeking professional help- would be a short cut to a possible solution, it wouldn't be the same as a "hands on" approach of doing it yourself, w/some suggestions from the forum.

Whatever you decide, I'll respect your decision. If there's anything that I can help with, I'll try to do so- as I'm sure all concerned will, as well.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:23 AM
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eric,
just my $.02:
alligator clip connect to the dist body is too "iffy" for what we are trying to prove...
(rock solid over kill ground supply negative circuit wiring to cure the miss)
unless you can find a spot where more than just the tip of the tooth only is contacting the dist metal surface...
and the clip does have a very strong spring to really grab and hold secure when actually driving over bumps in the road...

find a machine screw on the body and use a crimp on "U" or loop terminal... for the connect to the body...

don't connect to that middle wire....

just to the dist shell
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:23 AM
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My wife is gonna be ssooooo pissed, now you got me looking for an old scope and a damned dyno
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:36 AM
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Ok guys I will do the ground wire test to start off with. I will have to pick up some 12 gauge wire. Yes I did state my Uncle is coming up from Florida and my Dad mentioned he has some testing equipment that has a lot of features to test a lot of different thing's with various types of ignitions. As far as the distributor goes I used one in my other truck from skip white from ebay and that thing runs like a charm and just as good as any auto part rebuild HEI but I guess results will vary. I have used three different HEI's in this truck to rule some other issues out I had with a previous carb issue last fall and they all worked no better then the one I have now. One was a autopart gm reman one and the other was a proform which I sold.

Looking them over I don't see any difference in them or a auto part store rebuild. One from GM might be better or not I don't know with the way they make things these days. Will try that and I don't have the option to bring my truck to anyone to test these things. I need to learn this stuff and be able to trouble shoot this stuff with learning and getting help from you guys or manuals. Maybe one day I can be as good as you guys

Eric
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Adkins
My wife is gonna be ssooooo pissed, now you got me looking for an old scope and a damned dyno
LOL

What kind of scope and dyno (distributor "dyno"?) are you looking for- one you have 'misplaced' (as in, have it but don't know where it is) or "looking" as in, to buy?
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