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Old 11-15-2005, 08:13 AM
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Keith Black Pistons

Hi All Just Looking To Do My First Rebuild. I Have A Certain Amount Of Confidence For This 2.3l Ford Ranger Engine Since I Changed The Rings In It Last Year. I Want To Do It Myself Besides The Machining, Because I Have Gotten Burnt Before On My 460 Rebuild From What I Thought Was A Builder I Could Trust Lol. An Expensive Lesson To Learn (if You Want It Done Right, Do It Your Self!). Why The Little Engine Here At The Rodders Site, Daily Driver, High Gas Prices, And A Simple Basic Engine To Practice On. Plus I Drive This Little Shortbed 1985 Ranger 4wd From Out In The Sticks Into The City Of Pittsburgh Pa, And I Am Tired Of Seeing These Little High Tech Crotch Rocket Style Zippy Cars With The Maxwell House Cans For Mufflers Laughing When They Blow By, And If They Can Make Those 4 Bangers Run Why Cant Some Old Rodders Make An Old Ford 4 Banger Do Somewhat The Same Thing Ever Heard The Word Sleeper! Any Way Heres My Question How Are The Keith Black Hypereutectic Pistons That I See In The Summit Site? They Seem To Be Very Reasonable And As Usual I Am On A Budget For The Project.

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Old 11-15-2005, 08:23 AM
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pistons

Are you putting a turbo on this just to teach the ricers a lesson??? L.O.L.

The hyper pistons are ok, but just ok. They work fine unless you have a problem with detonation... I have about 10 or so engines out there with them in and i have had zero issues with them. But i had one customer run the engine with a detonation problem and it destroyed them.....another ran a engine with a 150hp plate on it and never had any issues, but he kept a eye on the plugs and used the correct fuel and timing to keep the engine out of detonation.....

if thats all the money you have buy them but if you can put a bit more in the budget there are better pistons out there....plus you only need to buy 4 of them...

I smell a turbo coming for your little ranger!!!!! if so used a good forged piston,,,, Teach those ricers a lesson!!!!!

Keith
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Old 11-15-2005, 01:34 PM
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I run a set of KB's in my 355. As he stated keep a close eye on timing because detonation will KILL these pistons.
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Old 11-15-2005, 01:46 PM
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What is the best way to make sure we don't cook them? I just installed a set myself. Any tips for the timming?
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Old 11-15-2005, 01:49 PM
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pistons

nolowrider,
I need a little more info on what your running??engine,ci, etc

compression, iron or aluminum heads, octane of the fuel, initial and total timing


What did you gap the top ring at,,,
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Old 11-15-2005, 02:06 PM
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I have not completed the build yet, so I don't have the initial or total yet.

327 (.030 over), KB Flat top Silvolite Hyper's, should be around 9.5-1 compression w/2.02/1.60, 64cc iron heads. Will probably be running 93 octane. Comp Magnum 280 cam, 2800 stall, TH350, GM HEI w/accell coil. 600 Holley. If I remember right the top gap was .018, they came pre-gaped from Sealed Power. But I did verify them.
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Old 11-15-2005, 03:17 PM
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No more than 36. Bring it all in at 3000.
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Old 11-15-2005, 04:44 PM
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Back to the turbo idea

A 2.3 turbo out of a Turbo T-Bird
can be a stout motor -

and I read an article a long time
ago about a very effective hop up
that was nothing more than a
freer exhaust system, a moderate
wide lobe center Crane cam, and
a couple small pin holes in the rubber
hose going to the waste gate which
fooled it into boosting turbo pressure.

A 4 speed T-Bird with 4:10's and
that motor turned some surprising
times and still got basically the
same gas mileage.
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Old 11-15-2005, 06:42 PM
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Keith Black needs a wider ring gap than normal. This is because of the heat being generated back into the piston will make the top ring gap close. My engine set the top ring gap at .019 and I lost 3 pistons late last year due to breaking the top ring lands and this was with a motor less than 300 miles on it with about 10:1 (76cc heads) and always running 91 octane with 34 degrees timing. I talked to KB and they recommended a .037 top ring gap for what I do. I now have close to 11:1 (68cc heads) and am still running 91 octane with 34 degrees timing with absolutely no problems. Everyone else is right on watching out for detenation and this will also break the top ring lands off. Looking at their chart for your 327 (NOlowrider), i say the minimum top gap needs to be .026. As for the 2.3 with a turbo, I'd say the minimum top gap at .030. Here is the specs for different combinations they recommend: http://kb-silvolite.com/clearance_pop.php
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Old 11-15-2005, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOlowrider
I have not completed the build yet, so I don't have the initial or total yet.

327 (.030 over), KB Flat top Silvolite Hyper's, should be around 9.5-1 compression w/2.02/1.60, 64cc iron heads. Will probably be running 93 octane. Comp Magnum 280 cam, 2800 stall, TH350, GM HEI w/accell coil. 600 Holley. If I remember right the top gap was .018, they came pre-gaped from Sealed Power. But I did verify them.

If you use Sealed Power or Speed Pro Hyper pistons, use can use the proper ring gap as designed.
If you use KB Hyper pistons, you MUST open the ring gap up so HIGH to keep the ring lands from blowing up.

Ask yourself this question: Why would I want a piston in my engine that requires .038 ring gap on the top ring? Do I want to give away 30 HP ?????

Glenn
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Old 11-15-2005, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHotRod

Ask yourself this question: Why would I want a piston in my engine that requires .038 ring gap on the top ring? Do I want to give away 30 HP ?????

Glenn

Because that .038" gap will close up at running temperature, and the KB pistons have the proper compression height, unlike many of the SP pistons.
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Old 11-16-2005, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macx
Back to the turbo idea

A 2.3 turbo out of a Turbo T-Bird
can be a stout motor -

and I read an article a long time
ago about a very effective hop up
that was nothing more than a
freer exhaust system, a moderate
wide lobe center Crane cam, and
a couple small pin holes in the rubber
hose going to the waste gate which
fooled it into boosting turbo pressure.

A 4 speed T-Bird with 4:10's and
that motor turned some surprising
times and still got basically the
same gas mileage.
THANKS MACX THIS IS SPARKING NEW IDEAS ABOUT THIS BUILD, SO DO YOU THINK THAT THE STOCK TURBOS OFF OF THE TBIRDS AND LITTLE STANGS WILL BE GOOD ENOUGH WITH A LITTLE MASSAGING INSTEAD OF GETTTING INTO THE PRICEY AFTERMARKET STUFF THATS GEARED TOWARD TODAYS KIDS WITH THE RICERS? AND THAT SHOULD BE PRETTY EASY TO FIND IN A BONE YARD. I KNOW I AM GETTING AHEAD OF MYSELF BUT WHAT ABOUT NITROUS ADDED TO THE TURBO OR NITROUS INSTEAD OF THE TURBO?

Last edited by PASNAKE; 11-16-2005 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 11-16-2005, 05:11 AM
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pistons

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOlowrider
I have not completed the build yet, so I don't have the initial or total yet.

327 (.030 over), KB Flat top Silvolite Hyper's, should be around 9.5-1 compression w/2.02/1.60, 64cc iron heads. Will probably be running 93 octane. Comp Magnum 280 cam, 2800 stall, TH350, GM HEI w/accell coil. 600 Holley. If I remember right the top gap was .018, they came pre-gaped from Sealed Power. But I did verify them.
Pull it back apart and fix that top ring... if you don't it's going to lift the ring lands....If you bought thses pistons new there is a calculation to get the proper top ring gap per application. I personally make my gap .002 larger then the size they suggest....

And you are not going to ever loose 30 hp with a ring gap in this typ of engine.......

Keith
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Old 11-16-2005, 08:28 AM
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K-Star- I will pull it back apart today and adjust the gap. I went to the KB site and they suggest .026. You said that you would go with .002 further, so I think I will go with that. Damn, I have the heads on already. But it worth the trouble to be safe. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 11-16-2005, 04:57 PM
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Another issue I had in selecting pistons from KB.

I got a set of forged aluminum pistons and in the specifications for this piston it referenced a stock "Crank to Deck Clearance" of 8.206" (Ford 302) when stating the compression ratio for the heads that I have as well as other specifications. My heads have 58cc combustion chambers and it shows 9.6:1 compression ratio with that sized combustion chamber. I had the block decked and that took the clearance down to 8.197" so that was putting the compression closer to 10:1 which is where I wanted it, or so I believed.

After I got the pistons I decided to use their compression calculator to see how accurate it was and to see exactly what my new compression ratio was actually going to be. Well it worked out to 9.6:1! How can this be with a lower than stock Crank to Deck Clearance?? It should be a little higher.

I contacted KB and I was told that ALL of their piston's compression ratios were calculated at "0" deck height so of course my pistons would be 9.6:1 after decking the block. I asked why they specify a stock deck height in the listing for the piston? They said that the deck height was assumed to be "0".

I told them that this was very misleading and I had known this I would have got a different piston to get the compression where I wanted it. They didn't care about that. I asked if they were going to change this practice and state the actual deck height in their piston specs and he said he didn't know.

SO, my whole point is to be sure to use their calculator for compression with your block specs because if you go by the rating on the pistons with a stock deck height you will not be getting what they are advertising and what you are expecting.


Steve
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