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Old 09-22-2004, 06:12 PM
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kill switch idea

i was fiddling around with my wiring today and thought of something that would be cool and affective. Would it be possible to add an extra key ignition so that you would need to keys to start up your car that way no matter what they cant start it up without having both keys. How could this be done just wondering if anyone has done this before.

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Old 09-22-2004, 07:47 PM
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Kill switch

Doc here

I suppose it could be done, but It would seem to be more of a PAIN in the butt than it's worth...

You could get a Key operated alarm switch at the parts store, and mount it hidden where ever... attach it in-between your Coil power wire...You could even make it look like the glove box door lock...

But I have enough trouble remembering ONE key...let alone 2..

Lucky to remember to bring my Driver's License...

And remember, If they REALLY want your car..They'll just hook up to it with a tow truck..and outta there~

Doc
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Old 09-24-2004, 12:23 AM
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A simple, concealed switch would be almost as effective and a lot easier. Just put it somewhere that you can easily reach but it can't be seen.
If they really want your car, they will get it. The goal of security systems is to delay the average theif so long he won't take the risk.
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Old 09-26-2004, 06:08 PM
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Re: kill switch idea

Quote:
Originally posted by Stangman196700
i was fiddling around with my wiring today and thought of something that would be cool and affective. Would it be possible to add an extra key ignition so that you would need to keys to start up your car that way no matter what they cant start it up without having both keys. How could this be done just wondering if anyone has done this before.


My 1940 Ford coupe is wired that way......

Original 40 Fords have a key lock that locks the steering wheel and allows the ignition switch to be opened. Then you have a push button starter switch to crank it.

I changed the push button starter to a keyed ignition switch.........takes two keys to crank it.

Not much more of a deterrent but every little bit HELPS.

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Old 09-27-2004, 11:34 AM
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HEY STANG: I have a battery disconnect switch that is mounted on floor in front of seat ( battery mounted under floor board) and it works great. It is all plastic and has a removeable key when switch is off. It works great when working on car and as security and fire protection. Switch cost about ten bucks....DAVE
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Old 09-27-2004, 12:07 PM
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thats what i was thinking of. where did you get the switch from since i havent seen a switch like that around here.
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Old 09-27-2004, 06:26 PM
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Switch

Doc here

You can get one from Hella Products : Here:

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/hella.htm

Those are good and Safe, And make a nice neat job of it, BUT be advised:

If your car is a daily driver, and not a race car, and computerized you are going to want to wire The Computer Memory past the switch, as well as the Radio/CD memory presets, and Power antenna RETRACT, as well as any alarm system you may have, (won't do you much good without power , YA think??)

Some Computers (most) Go through a "Learn" mode when Power is lost to regain data into RAM/PROM/EPROM...So your Car may run like "Crap in a Can" and/or flash codes for 50 to 100 miles after you disconnect power (remove or turn off the switch)While it regains data...If you don't wire the memory past the disconnect..

Personally, I'd like to invent the ultimate anti theft System...Would consist of when the Key Cylinder is forcibly removed it flashes a code that energizes a solenoid that drives a 1/2 inch Steel rod from the Door to the door jamb...Totally locking the doors until retracted...Then, Energize the steering wheel Airbag...EXCEPT the airbag is replaced with a Firebrick...K.O.!!!!! Car =1... Thief=0......

Knew that safety Stuff was good fur sumptin'.....
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:06 AM
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HEY STANG: The plastic type switches are about $ 10.00 from any performance auto supply house. Look at www.speedwaymotors.com or www.parrautomotive.com DAVE
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Old 09-28-2004, 08:28 PM
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Stang

Some forklift trucks use a electric inline fuel shutoff,I'm not that far along on my car yet but i'm going to see if i can wire one in with a remote switch hidden somewhere. A key isn't much of a deterrent to a lot of guys.No fuel no go.Then they will need a tow truck or go some where else,
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:06 AM
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A Different Approach

I have always had this idea, but I have never actually tried it to make sure it will work.

Why not wire your starter wire through a relay to your starter? Then have the relay activated by the cigarette lighter. (You would loose use of your cigarette lighter by doing this - The only way that it would still work is if you cranked your engine for a long time). Basically, how this works is you must press in your cigarette lighter in order for your starter to crank. It completes the circuit on the switch of the relay, closing the switch and allowing the car to crank.

I will let the crude diagram do the talking, let me know if anything doesn't make sense. From my knowledge of electronics, this should work (in case there is any doubt). You may want to keep an extra cigarette lighter around though

TravisT
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Old 10-18-2004, 03:45 PM
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switch

Doc here

Your idea will work fine, Except you want to hollow out the element and replace it with a solid washer or other, to keep it from heating up and poping out.

You'll still draw current through the relay coil, and the element dosn't care if it's positive or negative current to heat up..

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My favorite idea, and I haven't built one yet , only for want of time...and the fact now it's OLD technology...

Is using a generic keyboard like you can buy at Jimpacks or other electronics store...and ASCII Buffer chip, and a set of gates hooked in proper sequence to the buffer, to equal an assigned number
(like your driver's license number)

where you enter the first number and a gate fires, and sets up the next gate for the next number in series..and so on...

If you miss a number, or input it wrong, it fires a gate that blocks the next (or all) gates from operation until you clear and enter the right code..

The Last gate in the numerical series is a Gate that fires a buffer transistor like a Darlington, that powers a 4 pole single pole relay, that would activate and close power circuits to the:
  • Ignition switch,
  • the solenoid engage line(non power, just normally open, held closed),
  • wire to the fusible link(an option in a high theft area, has it's own drawbacks disconnecting the link),
  • and Power to the coil.
You would still have to use the key after the correct code is inputed...

The drawback to the fusible link idea, is you (unless you wired past it) will lose the Clock, radio presets, and if computer controlled the ECM...

The upside is, Even if a thief pops your ignition switch, it acts as if you have a "Dead Car"...or an earlier thief beat him to the battery..No lights, no starter, no nothing...he will move on..

If you use a 6 or better number sequence, a thief will die of old age before he gets it right on a 10 key keypad...

I thought this up about 10 years ago or so, before technology has improved to what it is today......I imagine today, you could use a palm pilot, fire wire umbilical cord and some sort of I/O in the car to handle the relay operations...

However, The painful fact remains...If they want your ride bad enough, and have the opportunity and time, they are just going to get a flatbed or tow truck..and make off with it...The way I lost a roadster show 56 Belaire from a service shop in Oakland, some 30 years ago...got back nothing more than a body shell, not even a wire harness was left!!

Locks and alarms only keep out the honest and piss off valets...a determined thief will get what he is after or get caught in the attempt!

Doc
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Old 10-18-2004, 04:56 PM
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You are correct, it will heat the element up. Normally it takes less time for you to crank your car than it does for the element to heat though. This is just my idea of having something right in front of a thief's face - but they would have no idea. You could leave the lighter pushed in until you wanted to activate the kill switch and then pull it out. No one would ever see you mess with this - since it wouldn't have to be done every time you start the car. You could do the washer thing and that would work also, but I don't think it would be necessary. The only way it would pop out is if you held the key in the start position long enough to heat the element (normally between 5 and 10 seconds max).

TravisT

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Old 10-19-2004, 12:16 AM
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Cool

Another way to use a hidden switch is wire it from your coil to switch to ground.
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Old 10-19-2004, 03:41 PM
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ground

Doc here

Volvo did that back in the late 50's on the old 544's I think, looked like a midget 40 Ford... . They also ran the coil wire and starter wire in flex metal conduit that screwed into the coil & solenoid body (so no wire was exposed) and when the switch was in the "Off" position, It was really on ground...everything went to ground when the key was turned off..

The draw back to a hidden switch on ground, Is you'll only forget to bypass it one time!! If you forget and leave it on*(grounded), then turn the key on*(12 volts), you'll burn the harness and/or fuse link up!!

Doc
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Old 10-19-2004, 08:17 PM
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Don't ground the hot side. Ground the points side. The points have to break contact to make spark. With the point side grounded they can't.
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