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Old 05-02-2010, 05:27 PM
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*** kind of gasser rear end is under the 57 bel air wow...

ok so uhmm i went to see if i could identify the rear axle thats stuck under the 57 bel air gasser that was built in at least the late 60s years and well ive seen some crazy ship in my day but this one takes the cake

it has custom ladder bar setup with air bags and leaves



it looks everything like a ford 9" axle

the wheel bolt pattern is chevy 4 3/4" or just about 1/16" more actually the studs are on the outer edges of the wheel stud holes in the gm wheels, and theres no evidence of having been redrilled from a ford pattern anywhere on the "drums" or axle flanges.

but the gm wheels center hole is too small to fit over the axle flange end. they had some nuts on the wheel studs against the drum to space the wheels out and super long wheel studs and really long wheel nuts, old school style that ive never seen before. he said something about it was required to have long studs on racing cars back then


this thing looks like a deathtrap how its setup wow i wouldnt trust it 2 feet at a crawl let alone down a track.


the drums are just light weight tin weird about 2lbs weight, if evne that much.,. things that i would not call brake drums. the shoes are barely over an inch wide which is crazy too.

there are no wheel cylinders and the lines are capped off in there

the axle shaft bearings retainers are bolted to the axle tube ends like a 9" but still isnt quite like a 9"

he was saying something about it was a pontiac axle maybe? were the pontiac axles that had a banjo type carrier liek a ford and bolted in axle bearing retainers??

***?


im lost... wow..

i need to get some pics

its a true vintage gasser done way back in the day.

is this how they set up their cars back then?

if so then how did any of these ppl survive?

i wouldnt let my worst enemy even drive it, its so dangerous unsafe looking. no wonder there's rules and regulations on racing now,. wow..

this car has been around in storage covered up since i was born and i never really got to mess with it like this until today right now and wow...

im scared at what im seeing..

did these old street and straight track racers want a death wish back then or what ?

wow..

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Last edited by fast68; 05-02-2010 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:49 PM
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Probably a mid sixties Olds-Pontiac rear. Definitely unsafe. Wouldn't pass my inspection back when I teched at the drags..
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:30 PM
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The 1950s Olds Pontiac rear end was the strongest thing available back in those days. The 9 inch Ford hadn't become popular yet, so the stronger after market parts were not available for it. The Olds Pontiac rear end was strong and there were parts for it, like spools, gears and axles. If this was my car I would want to keep this rear end in it, but fix the problems that you are finding.
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:23 PM
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how can i tell if its the olds pontiac rear vs a 9" im still quite confused on what it really is.

the center housing does look a bit larger than any 9" i have here, or have ever seen.,

i have several 9" axles here, one under the 54 f100, another with the 69 fairlane

and another one under something else here i forgot,
and i swear they are smaller physically than whatever this one under the bel air is..
it just looks massive, huge. like a 9" on steroids, almost as big as the old eaton H052 and H072 axles that were in the 20 and 30 series trucks before 1973,
same design and style and shape etc.


some questions to help me figure out what the heck this thing is:

what size ring gear was in these olds poncho rears?

these axles had bolted on bearing retainers ?

were the center hub holes on these axles larger than typical chevies such as the 7.5 and 8.5 etc??

wheel stud pattern on these was 4 3/4"?

these axles had crazy stamped steel light weight "drums" ?

this axle is totally odd i have never seen hubs and drums like this just so crazy wow.. im still appalled and cant get over it hmmm..

what kind of rear did these 57s originally have?

whatever they got theres one still under the 57 4 door 210 parts car out back ive just never been under it, its totally bone stock unmolested i know, also has the original front IFS and everything, and an old 235 in it thats frozen junk.

this stuff is just antique and crazy to me, wow..

i grew up on mid late 60s trucks, and really no cars before the 70s, so im not up and up on these old suckers, hmm, they are just alien and so odd..

all my years and all the years this car has been around here i had no clue all this craz stuff was hiding on it for me to discover one day wow... lol

we plan on selling the car soon anyways, its a good straight body, steel tilt front clip, middle of dash cut out and the engine mounted under the dash, gas pedal just in front of the seat, rear flare wheel tub openings rolled, front leaf springs solid axle. traction bars running up to middle of car underneath like trailing arms on the 64-72 trucks.
airbags with springs. 67-up dual small drum/drum master cylinder. just crazy..
we plan on getting it running and fix the brakes and make it run and drive and put some parts on it that are removed but we have all the parts, and clean it up and then see what we can get out of it.




thanks!

Last edited by fast68; 05-02-2010 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:40 PM
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ok did some research and i came up with a 57 pontiac super duty rear axle



it uhmm wow... looks alot like the rear under the bel air hmmmmm.,..,

interesting......

what were these axles under and how many wheel studs did they have, were they the 8 lug ones or were they 5 lug or were there both??

and apparently all the non-chevy rears had bolted bearing retainers?

really??

i had no clue about that i though all gm rears were c clipped

wow..... crazy,,


what year make model would i use in order to get wheel cylinders and stuff for this thing?

ill have to look at the axle tommorrow and see if its got the same ribs and such on the center housing hmmm..
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:04 PM
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57 to 64 olds/pon. rear ends are thr real deal for cthe 60's era gassers just picked up one for my 41 chevy one though rear end!
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast68
ok did some research and i came up with a 57 pontiac super duty rear axle



it uhmm wow... looks alot like the rear under the bel air hmmmmm.,..,

interesting......

what were these axles under and how many wheel studs did they have, were they the 8 lug ones or were they 5 lug or were there both??

and apparently all the non-chevy rears had bolted bearing retainers?

really??

i had no clue about that i though all gm rears were c clipped

wow..... crazy,,


what year make model would i use in order to get wheel cylinders and stuff for this thing?

ill have to look at the axle tommorrow and see if its got the same ribs and such on the center housing hmmm..
Chevy used a drop-out center section rear from 1955-63/64 that is close in size to the 8" Ford back then, the Chevy ring gear was 8.2" but parts don't interchange with the 64-72 8.2" with the rear cover and c-clips. I can't tell you if the Gasser has the early 8.2" or the Pontiac rear, haven't been working on them but know that they exist and were used back then in race cars. Pontiac has a 4-3/4" bolt pattern, I don't know about the center hub register size for the wheels. The '57 parts car will have the Chevy drop out 8.2", compare that to the one in the gasser, if the gasser is bigger it is the Pontiac/Olds rear.

Just for giggles, think about how a drop-out center axle goes together....how would you ever get c-clips installed?!!
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:14 AM
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The 9 inch Ford has a bolt in pinion housing with 5 bolts holding it in. The Olds Pontiac rear end did not.
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:45 PM
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9" pinion housing bolted in yeah i forgot about that one, yeah, duh for me.,,,,



this one is 4.75" stud pattern

and here is ours:





we getting rid of it soon along with the complete bone stock 4 door 210 parts car, and all the tons of parts for the bel air, which we have every single one of in storage

Last edited by fast68; 06-11-2010 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 06-12-2010, 05:36 PM
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These Olds/Pont rears had a 9.3" ring gear. IF your housing is in fact, a 57 Pont, then it's a bolt in on a tri-five leaf springs, as far as the spacing goes. 57-58 had 29 spline axles. 59-64 had 31 spline axles. 59-64 axles are one inch longer than 57-58 axles; you can shorten the 59-64 axles 1" to fit in a 57-58 housing. NO posi in 57; posi in 58, but really rare; 29 spline posi's are essentially non-existent. There are 2 different carriers, i.d.'d by the supporting ribs; yours is the "stronger' and later version, so I'm guessing you also have 31 spline axles. I find it odd that the car has lowering blocks, then coil spring/airbags for lift (???). Fairly typical ladder/lift bars. The wheel stud affair sounds like someone was trying to compensate for the wrong wheel back spacing, and would'nt have been legal, even way back when. They are pretty strong rears, they just weigh so much more than a 9"or 8-3/4". The third member alone comes in at around 97 pounds. As far as the brakes go, I have no idea, but it sounds rediculous; post a pic of that. 50's-60's cars did'nt have really wide brake shoes/drums however. Butch/junior stocker

Just noticed the two pics are different, yours is the second pic. If your third member looks like the first pic, then it's the stronger one. But, even the "weaker" one is stronger than most anything else out there.

My 56 Delivery has a 57 Olds rear, the spring pads had to be moved. My 31 spline, Summers Bros axles, were for a 59-64 housing, and I shortened them up 1". I have 2 different third members, one Dana, one Eaton posi, 4.88 and 5.38 gears.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:29 AM
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the newest/latest pics in this thread is our actual car

i took and posted these pics other day.......
the ones in upper part of the post are from the internet..........

so can i definitely know/say that we have a '50's poncho rear axle under this thing ? or ?

im so confused here,,,,,,


thanks again!!
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:38 PM
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YOU HAVE A 1957 PONTIAC HOUSING! What axles,third member, and brakes is anyones guess. If you part the car out, be sure and note it's a 57 housing, the tri-five guys look for those. They're a bolt in, and have the correct spring pad spacing already. Butch/junior stocker.
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