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-   -   Lathe Identification and general info? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/lathe-identification-general-info-157636.html)

JoshF 04-28-2009 04:51 PM

Lathe Identification and general info?
 
5 Attachment(s)
I was given this lathe on Sunday. I have always wanted to learn how to use one, so hopefully this is the good deal I had been waiting for. I am cleaning it up, but so far I have not found anything written or stamped onto the actual machine. The motor, which judging by the bracket is not original, appears to be a "Master" with a wheel shifted transmission.

I am a complete beginner with lathes and machine work in general so any input is appreciated. I have mounted the motor after taking the pictures and everything turns but the auto/manual feed selector had a broken piece I have taken apart to weld up, at which point I think everything will be moving as it is supposed to.

Does anyone have any idea what make/ model/ vintage machine I might be working with?

Is there anything I need to know?

What tooling should I buy first (I did not get any with it)? I am not looking to make anything in particular first, I will probably be turning whatever I can to learn how to run it.

Thanks,

Josh

jaguarxk120 04-28-2009 05:18 PM

What is on the two metal plates behind the wheel that says master?

Mike H 04-28-2009 05:20 PM

4 Attachment(s)
I would buy a quick change type tool post. and get some incerted carbide tooling for it. Use a 370 grade for general turning, try to buy your tooling US made the import stuff is junk and if you are just starting out you need to have tooling that will repeat if you break one and need to chane in the middle of a job.

I started with a 12" Atlas fladbed and now have a 14" Rockwell and a series 1 Bridgeport in my front garage that stay busy making money for me.

You will find all kinds of things you can make with a lathe here are a few pictures of the machines and some work I have done with them.

JoshF 04-28-2009 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguarxk120
What is on the two metal plates behind the wheel that says master?

I will post it when I get home from work.

cgates 04-28-2009 05:33 PM

That looks a lot like an old C A Clausing that I had. Probably pre war. Mine was a flat belt drive. Not real good for precision part but to learn on, not too bad.

ericnova72 04-28-2009 05:43 PM

I'd say pre-WWII also. We have two WWII era lathes and what you have looks older yet, maybe 1920's or WWI. You should be able to find a I.D. tag riveted somewhere on it, or a cast-in name and date.

fustkarr 04-28-2009 06:38 PM

tool posts-n-tools
 
I'd look for an Aloris quick clange tool post {or a Dorian} and see if anyone over at the local community college can show you the how'why on HHS toolbits...HHS because chances are this lathe isn't gonna generate the surface speeds that carbides work at.....Meanwhile see what textbook they're using over at the community college and get one..Look up the toolpost on line and get familiar w/it...Then lookup a post-n-rocker toolpost and see how they work..they're gonna be much cheaper than the q-change and lend themselves to the HHS toolbits.Finally after your frustrated beyond your wildest dreams w/this lathe , take the course over at the local kiddie college and learn what a lathe should be doing and how to run it correctly...Then go looking for a good used manual lathe...you can take the q-change {and any other tooling }off the origional lathe and put it on the "new" one..
Goodluk, Randy

oldred 04-28-2009 06:38 PM

Looks like a pre-war Clausing and it is probably a very usable machine if it is not too sloppy. What tooling you will need is a good question but the list is endless and I would suggest not spending much on anything that will not be usable on a newer machine. I would suggest buying only what you really need at first and, in all due respect to Mikes suggestion, a quick change tool post would be nice but not really necessary IMO and the $200 or so it would cost would buy a lot of bits and other parts. A good live center for the tail stock and a drill chuck are almost "have to haves" and of course you will need a dial indicator with stand, mics, calipers, etc.

Be warned, you are about to become addicted to a habit that will be impossible to break! :)

JoshF 04-28-2009 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguarxk120
What is on the two metal plates behind the wheel that says master?

The top plate on the transmission (in the photo) has:

Master
Speed Ranger
Style #112774
Size 742Q
Const. orque 7.5 Inch-Pounds

The bottom plate is the list of approved oils and some cautions

On top of the motor:

Master AC Motor
Type RA
1725 RPM
Cont. Duty 40 (degrees) C
1/2 Horse

Also, on the underside of the table it has 13 190 cast into it. The 3 is difficult to read and could be a different number.

JoshF 04-28-2009 08:32 PM

I just looked at what seems to be the oldest Clausing model. They say it has roller bearings on the spindle. Mine has Babbitt bearings. Do you know if they had different options or if I need to keep looking?

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldred
Looks like a pre-war Clausing and it is probably a very usable machine if it is not too sloppy. What tooling you will need is a good question but the list is endless and I would suggest not spending much on anything that will not be usable on a newer machine. I would suggest buying only what you really need at first and, in all due respect to Mikes suggestion, a quick change tool post would be nice but not really necessary IMO and the $200 or so it would cost would buy a lot of bits and other parts. A good live center for the tail stock and a drill chuck are almost "have to haves" and of course you will need a dial indicator with stand, mics, calipers, etc.

Be warned, you are about to become addicted to a habit that will be impossible to break! :)


406 bug 04-28-2009 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike H
I would buy a quick change type tool post. and get some incerted carbide tooling for it. Use a 370 grade for general turning, try to buy your tooling US made the import stuff is junk and if you are just starting out you need to have tooling that will repeat if you break one and need to chane in the middle of a job.

I started with a 12" Atlas fladbed and now have a 14" Rockwell and a series 1 Bridgeport in my front garage that stay busy making money for me.

You will find all kinds of things you can make with a lathe here are a few pictures of the machines and some work I have done with them.

Nice equipment and great fab/ machine work. Just one Question: What prupose does the lower loop around the crank pulley serve?

4 Jaw Chuck 04-29-2009 09:33 PM

Thats a South Bend, prewar...if I had to guess I would say circa 1911.

I used one identical to her (all lathes are women BTW), the shaft below is for bench mounting with a countershaft...back in the days when shops had powered countershafts running through them from an outside steam or electric motor.

She needs a lot of TLC before I would even put power to it, those babbit bearings won't take carbide speeds so stick to HSS. Hope you got the gears with it so you can change feed, kinda limits the usefulness without them. It needs a good cleaning, when adjusting the gears on the feed use a strip of paper to get the clearance right, those old gears tend to not run true on the pitch diameter so don't run it too tight.

A quick change tool post is nice but on these old lathes the carriage keeps the original post bolt so far from the spindle centerline you will need special holders for the tool blanks. With this lathe we just used the original tool holders and just inverted the cup under the post to hold the tool flat, you need to be able to reach out with the tool holder and need the length given with the original tool holders.

Don't go nuts with power, they don't have the rigidity for over 2HP...remember in the old days they used light cuts and slow feeds, flat belts slip at high horsepowers so even though the vee belt retrofit you have already is capable of transmitting more power don't do it.

My eye twitches when I see this old beauty because I spent more time playing with them than I ever wanted to, keep the spindle bearings well lubricated and adjusted properly (its shimmed), get it mounted straight and clean it up and she will turn lots of work for you.

BTW STP mixed 50/50 with 10wt mineral oil works great for a spindle oil and helps with vibration, we replaced the drip feed cups with felt wicks in the headstock to extend the time between lubricating the spindle...constant squirts from the oil can to fill the cup are a PITA once the spindle babbit is worn.

Here's a similar one.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...s/100_6741.jpg

awert 04-30-2009 09:58 AM

Lathe
 
I was really shocked when i went out to buy tooling for my Lathe, I paid $400 for it (12x36 Taiwan made , but pretty nice for 4K) and almost that much for the quick change tool post..... Prices are horrid.... I look at the on-line auctions for tooling now, much better......

jaguarxk120 04-30-2009 10:49 AM

Try Wholesale Tool at www.wttool.com many of their prices are good.

oldred 04-30-2009 11:03 AM

Tool prices can be rough and the initial cost of the lathe can be the cheapest part. :sweat:

I bought a new Chinese Lathe (14x40) rather than try to rebuild my well used older 16" machine and so far it is doing just fine, I have found that the larger import machines from 12x36 on up are not at all bad, certainly not even in the same ballgame as the old American/European iron but quite usable (and affordable) anyway. I kind of figured 4 Jaw would weigh in on this one and sure enough his usual wealth of knowledge put everything in a much clearer perspective! :) There is more info in that one post than I have seen on these old machines anywhere and as common as they seem to be we need to save this post for possible future reference.


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