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Old 09-15-2013, 02:02 PM
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Leaking Super T-10

There seems to be a leak at the front of my transmission (between trans and bellhouse). It has come to my attention that the bolts on the front bearing retainer are not blind and need sealer on them. Pretty sure I missed this.

The only other thing I can think of is that the counter shaft is exposed in the front of the main case. What if anything is supposed to be used to prevent leaks here?

Anything else I am missing? Not looking forward to removing the trans again, so I a want to make sure I get everything this time!

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Old 09-15-2013, 02:47 PM
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While it's not impossible , the bolts in front seldom leak- IMHO.
If this is an older tranny it's very likely the counter shaft bore has opened up a bit . Only way to cure that is a new front case or make a bushing & rebore the case . You can do the latter fairly easily if you have access to machine tools .
dave
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:50 PM
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The countershaft (rod that the cluster gear rides on) is a press fit in that case. If its weeping there, its days are numbered. If the retainer seal, gasket or bolts are leaking; its probably an easy fix.

Front seal is a Chicago Rawhide 12363
Gasket is a T10-55
Bolts I think are supposed to be torqued to 20ft lb. Im at home so I dont have my manual. I think I sent you, or posted a copy of, our yellow service catalog for the ST-10; it should be in there. Id also only use 1qt of non-synthetic 75w90.

Nate
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:06 PM
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Thank you gents!

Just wondering about the bushing method....what size is the finished hole and what size is the shaft?
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:31 AM
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Since you'll be making the bushing, size is up to you , just keep in mind that you want an interference fit [you PRESS the bushing into the case & PRESS the shaft into the bushing. I've done this 1/2 dozen times to save muncie cases & it has been successful . Talk to a GOOD machinist/tool&die maker , advice from a pro is priceless!!!
dave
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2old2fast View Post
Since you'll be making the bushing, size is up to you , just keep in mind that you want an interference fit [you PRESS the bushing into the case & PRESS the shaft into the bushing. I've done this 1/2 dozen times to save muncie cases & it has been successful . Talk to a GOOD machinist/tool&die maker , advice from a pro is priceless!!!
dave
Well that is what I need to know...how much of an interference fit does the shaft and case/bushing need? If I drop it off at a shop and tell them to do the work, will they know the correct size from experience/intuition?
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:34 AM
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EDIT- The following I wrote thinking the transmission was a freaking Muncie. My mistake. Maybe it'll help someone who's doing a search for "leaking countershaft" or something like that.

Not doubting you on the leak being from the trans, but if you're not positive, check to be sure 'cause it could be from the rear main seal. You know what trans lube smells like, I'm sure...

Hopefully this doesn't also mean that besides the countershaft being loose in the front, that the rear isn't also sloppy where it meets the bearing support. As a side note (AutoGear can expand on this- if it's true), If memory serves the shaft is actually slightly beveled. That's to say it's smaller at the end, so as to form a wedge that's made tight as the rear of the trans is bolted up to keep lube from leaking.

Besides bushing the countershaft or boring the case for a 1" shaft (if it now has a 7/8" shaft- this would also require cluster, etc.), the bore can be 'shrunk'. This is prolly best left to a Muncie pro, though; it can involve welding. You may hear of adding a rubber O-ring to the shaft; I doubt that's a fix w/any durability and probably isn't worth the trouble.

Either way I would think using sleeve retaining loctite would be a good idea from both a "holding-it-in" and "stop-it-from-leaking" standpoint.



FWIW, I had been overfilling my Muncie M-20; using just one quart like AutoGear suggests may help.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:41 AM
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Is it an interference fit at both the front of the case and the mid plate?
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:45 AM
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Repeat: Good machinist !!! The problem w/trying to use the loctite stuff is when you push the countershaft through the countergear that's full of greased bearings, you'll wind up w/grease on the shaft that will render the plastic stuff useless [the parts have to be clean & sprayed w/an activator IIRC]
A good machinist should know what thickness to make the bushing[about.125] & what fit you need.
dave
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:51 AM
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Not at the midplate .
dave
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:08 PM
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Thanks!

I called a local machine shop. They quoted $100-$150 over the phone. Sounds like they have done the same thing to Muncies. They also mentioned something about possibly using an o-ring. But it kinda sounded like this was for a race car transmission and it was used to keep the rest of the gears from spinning at high rpm? IDK. I will get the transmission out, hopefully this week. I appreciate everyone's input!

Nate: does Autogear give discounts to hotrodders members? Looks like I will need a full gasket set!
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
The problem w/trying to use the loctite stuff is when you push the countershaft through the countergear that's full of greased bearings...
The loctite I recommended would be used on a clean, bored/sized shaft, bushing and case, not used as a glue or sealer on an assembled transmission...
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:28 AM
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The Muncie shaft IS beveled slightly. Both it and the T10 shaft are hardened as well. Make sure you check your shaft (grin) CLOSELY. No nicks or scratches; no hot spots from the needles etc.
Let me see if Ive got a new T10 shaft in the "engineering samples" area (ie my bosses desk). If you're going to go this far, Id suggest starting with a new shaft. Make SURE your shop checks to see that the main and countershaft are parallel to each other. If you have to re-establish parallelism, you can put a weld in the countershaft hole and "move it" back to center before you install the sleeve.

Muncie cases are way worse; and we're usually in the $2-300 range to restore a case. But we use a CMM to measure everything, and usually have to true up the face and fix an ear or 2.

I don't discuss pricing, but you guys know if you need something I'll help a brother out. Check your PM's
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:50 AM
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FYI the shaft is made to print at 0.9970" outside dia and 9.44" in length. Id still rather your machinist had a shaft in his hand to play with before he starts drilling holes (grin)
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