less pin travel after 2-4 servo Sonnax seals installed, Whats wrong ? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:40 AM
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less pin travel after 2-4 servo Sonnax seals installed, Whats wrong ?

Hi guys .

I need some troubleshoot help here.

After installing the sonnax 2nd Gear 'Super Hold' Servo Assembly and the 'Super Hold' 4th Gear Servo with the sonnax extra Long Servo Pin. I checked the servo travel withe following results:

no seals & no grinding of servo pin = 0.00" pin travel.

No seals & grinding of servo pin = 0.92" (specs travel rage 0.75-1.25").

After the pin was ground down to specs the band clearly engaged and released upon manual apply. Also, the reverse input housing and clutch assembly was clearly well seated just below the base of the pump bore and it rotated in both clockwise and counter clockwise, as required. so I thought i was done, and left it for a few while.

Just before putting everything together and finishing up I installed the seals, and went to throw on the 2-4 servo snap ring, but in was hard to get on and had almost zero travel.

Has anybody here had this issue before?

Do I have to re-grind the servo pin again or not ?

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Old 05-09-2011, 08:28 AM
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Here is a video clip of the servo and pin travel without the 4th gear servo cover on.

With the cover on, which is really difficult to get on, almost no travel ??

Can't work this one out.





Note- This is from the sonnax instructions but i am not sure how it applys to me when checking the pin travel without the GM tool. here it is:

"WARNING: The Sonnax 4th Gear Super Hold Servo 77767K will reduce pin travel by .050" (see Chart 1). Therefore it is necessary to compensate when using GM tool # J33037. For example, change pins or grind pin tip to set pin length so gauge line is near the outside edge (short pin) side of the window on tool J-33037 (as if the pin was the shortest allowable). When assembled, the resulting pin travel will be .075". From this point measure the length of the pin with calipers and remove up to .050 additional material to set pin travel in the desired range of .075-.125."

Last edited by old yukon; 05-09-2011 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:40 PM
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make sure the seals are not getting caught in the bore.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:42 PM
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Removed and checked all seals.

Then individually checked each component.
I noticed that the separator piston was really tight.
When I applied alot of forced (frustration!) to the thing, it went in deeper.

Put it all together and it seems OK.

The travel has reduced right down to 0.055".
I ground the tip down another 0.022", then reinstalled all parts.

I hope that travel will get longer as the seals wear in and the components seat tighter.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old yukon
Removed and checked all seals.

Then individually checked each component.
I noticed that the separator piston was really tight.
When I applied alot of forced (frustration!) to the thing, it went in deeper.

Put it all together and it seems OK.

The travel has reduced right down to 0.055".
I ground the tip down another 0.022", then reinstalled all parts.

I hope that travel will get longer as the seals wear in and the components seat tighter.
i have the 2nd gear super servo in my 700 for my 72. you need to reduce the shims provided, not grind the tip of the pin. once you get the rough .075-.125 in. of travel without the seals on, put it together and make sure the reverse input drum turns. if it does, you should be good to go.
i actually kind of cheated and used the oem pin and just set the clearance with the provided shims. if i remember correctly, i used 3 thick shims and 2 thin shims. hopefully that will get you in the ballpark.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:35 AM
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Thanks guys for the feedback.


tnsmith10

Sorry if I didn't make myself so clear. I have installed the:

- 2nd Gear 'Super Hold' Servo Assembly and
- the 'Super Hold' 4th Gear Servo with
- the sonnax extra Long Servo Pin.

there are No shims in any of these products.


Just to get this right. Are you saying get the pin travel right without seals. Then put on the seals and forget about the travel and put everything together.

Last edited by old yukon; 05-10-2011 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:56 AM
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After checking up again with Sonnax I got the following.

1. Assemble all components without seals - This means install the second gear super hold piston, with the sonnax extra long pin, springs, and washers. Then the support assembly over that. Then the forth gear servo with snap ring.

2. Establish pin travel with in specs - When applying force to the 4th gear servo, measure pin travel. If not within specs (0.075" - 0.125") remove the whole assembly to get at the pin and grind/ file/ sand the tip of the pin down, maintaining the original domed tip shape to achieve this travel. the entire servo assembly may have to be removed and reinstalled 3 -5 times until the travel specs are reached.

3. install all seals- Once specs are reached with out any seals on the servo assembly. remove the entire assembly for a final time. Install all the seals, making sure you don't roll the D cut seals on the the 2nd gear piston.

4. Install and leave it. - Reinstall the entire servo assembly with seals, springs, washers, and snap ring, and you are done. NOTE- No need to recheck the pin travel anymore after installation, as the seals will change the characteristics of the servo apply.

Hay that's what they say.

Last edited by old yukon; 05-10-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old yukon
Thanks guys for the feedback.


tnsmith10

Sorry if I didn't make myself so clear. I have installed the:

- 2nd Gear 'Super Hold' Servo Assembly and
- the 'Super Hold' 4th Gear Servo with
- the sonnax extra Long Servo Pin.

there are No shims in any of these products.


Just to get this right. Are you saying get the pin travel right without seals. Then put on the seals and forget about the travel and put everything together.
correct. thats the easiest way to go about it. thats the way i did it because the rubber seals just dont move very well in the bore, even with good lube/assembly gel.
the travel is the same whether the seals are on or not. i got the 2nd gear spuer hold, but didnt do the 4th gear as i didnt feel it was needed. and i dont have any issues with my trans and its in a street legal car that runs 12's.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old yukon
After checking up again with Sonnax I got the following.

1. Assemble all components without seals - This means install the second gear super hold piston, with the sonnax extra long pin, springs, and washers. Then the support assembly over that. Then the forth gear servo with snap ring.

2. Establish pin travel with in specs - When applying force to the 4th gear servo, measure pin travel. If not within specs (0.075" - 0.125") remove the whole assembly to get at the pin and grind/ file/ sand the tip of the pin down, maintaining the original domed tip shape to achieve this travel. the entire servo assembly may have to be removed and reinstalled 3 -5 times until the travel specs are reached.

3. install all seals- Once specs are reached with out any seals on the servo assembly. remove the entire assembly for a final time. Install all the seals, making sure you don't roll the D cut seals on the the 2nd gear piston.

4. Install and leave it. - Reinstall the entire servo assembly with seals, springs, washers, and snap ring, and you are done. NOTE- No need to recheck the pin travel anymore after installation, as the seals will change the characteristics of the servo apply.

Hay that's what they say.
the washers are the shims i was referring to. it should come with 3 or 4 thick and the same with the thin.
in paragraph 2, this is why i used my oem pin, it was already the right length. so i just ended up using it.
and like i mentioned before, even if your sure you got the travel correct, still make sure the reverse input drum turns freely. just good insurance that your gonna be ok, and not wipe out the band.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:15 PM
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Thanks for that tnsmith10.

Hay, does that mean i will be pulling 12's from now on LOL !
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Old 05-11-2011, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old yukon
Thanks for that tnsmith10.

Hay, does that mean i will be pulling 12's from now on LOL !
LOL!!! well, only if you put your yukon on a serious diet and do some engine modifications.
my ventura has a 4 bolt 350 with a set of worked over fuelie heads, a comp cams xe274, running roughly 10 to 1 compression, with a msd 6al box and msd pro billet distributor, torquer II intake, and ( for now) 600 cfm vacuum secondary holley 4 barrel. my 700 in the car has a 3000 stall non lockup converter, and it has 4.56 gears. the car weighs over 3400 pounds.
it became a toy when gas prices started going through the roof in 2007 and my wife and i moved to NC. it had the factory 307 with a th350 that i pulled out and sold, as i had no intention of ever putting it back in.
its actually my wifes car that she lets me play with, which she will be getting back when we get back to AZ, as my dad has a couple cars hes obtained here in the last year to go racing again. she will end up driving it as she likes the drag racing her self.
we should be all moved back to az by next week.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:27 AM
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It must be a good feeling to be getting back home !

As for the diet and modes the post traumatic stress disorder I have suffered after just touching the 4L60e and a few other things is enough of an experience to last me a lifetime !

My 4x4 beast is enough for me, the way she is.

Have a safe trip and drive safely man !
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:39 AM
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you can count on it! with all the tornadoes and heavy rain with all the flooding going on , and having some issues on the trip out here driving with my dad that we had, has got me in "very cautious" mode right now.
the good news is, we should be heading out friday, or at the latest saturday, and should be past the flooding before it reaches vicksburg mississippi @ i-20 which isnt supposed to hit there till around the 19th. which by then we should be back in az.
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