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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 10:48 AM
richard stewart 3rd's Avatar
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Hi,
Well Boat Bob, I think he meant the distributor 180*
as he said he has an Edelbrock carb & I don't think
anyone is stupid enough to put it on backward.

Shrhuston , How's it going have you made any progress?
Rich

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 11:42 AM
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Well, same spot. Will not fire, it tries by coughing at times. I have done.
1) Removed Valve covers again watched each cyl. for the valves in the closed position and double checked the rockers on each in firing order 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2. Iím doing this by memory, not looking at the intake at the moment. I took each to snug with resistance and turned 1/2 more.
2) I checked the Dist. gear and it is fine.
3) The rotor only goes on 1 way so that wasnít wrong.
4) Watched the spark from 1 and 8 both good and 1 would spark at what seemed to be the compression cycle with Cyl 1.
5) Double checked the fuel and getting plenty.
6) Checked the exhaust and it was puffing out normally.
7) Followed each spark plug wire to make sure they were right.
8) Made sure that 1 was lined up with the rotor when both valves were closed after intake closed.

The only thing I have not tried is pulling the Timing cover off and make sure the marks are lined up. Unless there is something else you all can think of.

I rebuilt 5 or 10 motors about 20 years ago when I was a kid and had to replace Distributors and set timing, most of the time by ear on cars I have owned since. I do all my own work I just havenít done a complete rebuild for quit some time. I have a Chiltonís and have been referring to that through out the rebuild and I have been taking my time building it 2 years buying a little at a time so that is why I can not defiantly say I lined up the marks.

Thanks to all who are trying to give legitimate advice.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:36 PM
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Hi,
You might try this,
Screw you compression tester in #1, hook-up your timing light to #1, then have someone turn the engine over while you check to see where the timing light blinks in relation to the dampener timing mark & compression gauge raising.

When you set the distributor to #1 where was the timing mark on the dampener? TDC, 10*BTDC,?
Rich

Last edited by richard stewart 3rd; 03-04-2008 at 12:40 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 04:31 PM
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If you have the cam card you can check the cam timing without taking it all back apart. Check the spec for when the intake should start to open, slowly crank by hand while holding the #1 intake rocker. As soon as you feel it start to move, stop and check the damper pulley timing marks, see if it is in spec. If you have a dial indicator with a magnetic stand you can set that up on the rocker and it woill be much more accurate.

You firing order is correct, and it is in clockwise rotation correct.


Chet
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 09:22 PM
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I rechecked the compression in 1 and 3 and they dropped. They were low before and I was told to put a little oil in the cylinders to seat the rings and I did which pulled the compression up to 120 to 125 per cyl. when I checked 1 and 3 tonight 1 was 75 and 3 was 105.

I just bought a standard 350 kit from AutoZone. the timing cover is a custom chrome and the dist was a new clear.

I wonder if I put more oil in if the rings might seal. to create a seal?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrhuston
I rechecked the compression in 1 and 3 and they dropped. They were low before and I was told to put a little oil in the cylinders to seat the rings and I did which pulled the compression up to 120 to 125 per cyl. when I checked 1 and 3 tonight 1 was 75 and 3 was 105.

It sounds like you have two issues here, ignition timing and valve adjustment.

LOOK HERE for some good methods of valve adjustment. My second post in that thread will tell you how to get it time for break-in. A timing light can be used later for tuning after it's broke in.

The timing tab on your new timing cover may be mis located as there were different locations for it depending on balancer size/application. You can find top dead center by inserting a small screwdriver in the #1 spark plug hole and feel while turning the crank by HAND. Common sense takes play here.

As far as lining up the oil pump drive you can place the distributor in phase, with it loose turn the motor by hand and it will fall into place.

Of course, you might have fuel fouled plugs from all the cranking by now, so make sure they're good and dry as well.

Let us know what you find.
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:49 AM
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you said you used to tinker when you were younger,did it happen to be fords that you were into,cause the direction on the cap for your wires is the opposite of one another,i believe it is clockwise for chev and counter for fords,not likely but ive seen weirder things happen,happen to me when i went from mustang to trans am,juss my 2 cents
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 05:24 AM
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G'day shrhuston,

Most of the other blokes have covered everything. I agree with some of the other posts....get somebody over there. A fresh head asking questions, although unpalatable at times, may be just the thing to get it running.

A couple of things that may or may not be an issue, or you may have tried, but if not, some food for thought.

1. Is the distributor a known working unit ?. If not get one. Is the distributor an old points type ?. If so have you got gap at the points, about 0.20" from memory when open. Dwell maybe way off causing hard starting.

2. You have already stated that you've got spark, is it a big fat blue spark or a weak yellow spark ?. You need all the voltage you can muster on a new motor. Replace the coil if in doubt with a known good one. Ignition leads maybe an issue. Check the resistance of the leads (Ohms) with your multimeter. Replace if over 20,000 ohms (20K).

3. Back firing through the carb can only be caused by incorrect timing (way off), incorrect firing order or intake valves not seating properly. Have you checked that the distributor cap is wired for correct rotation ?. I read that you have checked the valves so that shouldn't be an issue now.

4. Are you priming the carb at all ?, or are you relying on pumping the throttle to fuel it up ?. Sometimes you need to drop some fuel down the carby throats to get them going. Fix the backfiring problem first otherwise you'll have a carb fire. As already suggested the plugs maybe fouled, clean them or get a new set.

5. When it does backfire through the carb or out the exhaust does the motor come to a dead stop ?. If so this would indicate too much advance. Maybe a tooth or more out. If the motor still cranks relatively easily backfiring then it's probably badly retarded or 180 degrees out.

6. It has not been mentioned so far and please don't take this the wrong way. Chev motors have the odd firing cylinders 1 3 5 7 on the drivers side (L/H drive vehicles) and 2 4 6 8 on the other side. You've checked this, wires all correct ?.

7. Lastly, the compressions are low but at 100 - 120 it should still run. As mentioned before it should be arround 150 for a healthy motor. When you check the compression are you pulling all the plugs to get maximum cranking speed ?, and are you holding the carb wide open ?. If not this will effect you reading. If the rings are new and unseated then this will effect your reading also, oil the bores as already suggested.

My apologies for such a long post but I hope this helps and you get it started.

Cheers..........Barry.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 06:47 AM
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I'm with johnnyblaze on this one, I had flames coming out of my buddies ford because I had that GM mindset.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 08:02 AM
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I know there is an issue with the compression, I think it might be an issue with the new rings sealing. I have had others suggest putting oil in each cyl to assist in getting the rings to seal.
Have any of you tried / done this before and if so how much did you put in each cyl? I tried this a week ago and it did bring the compression up to 120 to 125 in each cyl then it is back down last night so it may not have been enough to seal the rings, or do I have a bigger prob.?

I have an HEI Dist, it is new never ran. I have the wires in a clockwise pattern.

Last night when I took Spark plugs out of 1 and 3 there was fuel on them. I checked the spark out of those plugs and the spark was blue, I can check it with my meter.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:05 AM
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Here is a couple things to check. Count the number of threads above each nut on your rockers.. I have found that almost every SBC i've ever done there will be about 4 threads when the rockers are adjusted correctly. I'm not saying this is a way to adjust rockers but a way to get it close.. If you are popping through the carb that tells me an intake valve is opening when its trying to fire or has fired.

Try this... remove the valve covers and watch #6 rockers as you rotate the engine over and as the exh valve is closing just as it come to the top the intake will start to open. When you have the exh still not closed and the intake just opening that called splitting the overlap. At that point you are at TDC on #1. and BDC on #6.. Now look at the timing mark on the balancer and it should be on 0 degrees + or _ 1 or 2 degrees. if not you have an issue with the cam and crank timing. Also at that point your rotor on your dist should be pointing at #1 cyl on the cap. If all those things are correct the engine should run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrhuston
I know there is an issue with the compression, I think it might be an issue with the new rings sealing. I have had others suggest putting oil in each cyl to assist in getting the rings to seal.
Have any of you tried / done this before and if so how much did you put in each cyl? I tried this a week ago and it did bring the compression up to 120 to 125 in each cyl then it is back down last night so it may not have been enough to seal the rings, or do I have a bigger prob.?

I have an HEI Dist, it is new never ran. I have the wires in a clockwise pattern.

Last night when I took Spark plugs out of 1 and 3 there was fuel on them. I checked the spark out of those plugs and the spark was blue, I can check it with my meter.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 08:53 PM
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Okay I was a little hasty, I pulled all the plug tonight and put a fresh battery in and the compression in 1 was 105.
All the plugs were wet and some a little dirty.
On the heads are the valves always R=intake and L=exhaust? Also there is a point where the intake opens then the exhaust then a pause and intake opens again. Is TDC during the longer pause in between and if so do I set spark right at the close point?
Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89o5r...eature=related
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:14 PM
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Bud it is sounding more and more to me that your cam timing is off.
As for valves, get on the drivers side of the car and look at the head.
Front to rear;

EI IE EI IE

Passenger side
Front to rear;

EI IE EI IE

Look at the runners on the intake and the exhast ports on the heads, you'll see the path...
Your description of the movement of the intake valve makes me suspect timng gears are not aligned. Remember, the 4-stroke rule,
Intake
Compression
Power
Exhaust

The intake valve should not be re-opening after it has charged the cylinder with fuel/air, the piston moves down during that process, after which the valve closes, and both valves remain closed as the piston travels up to create compression. The intake valve should not be opening again until after the exhaust stroke, (overlap isn't in this basic description..)
Get another educated set of eyes on it before you do damage to the thing cranking on it!!!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2008, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrhuston
Okay I was a little hasty, I pulled all the plug tonight and put a fresh battery in and the compression in 1 was 105.
All the plugs were wet and some a little dirty.
On the heads are the valves always R=intake and L=exhaust? Also there is a point where the intake opens then the exhaust then a pause and intake opens again. Is TDC during the longer pause in between and if so do I set spark right at the close point?
Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89o5r...eature=related
When you are turning the engine the intake will ope and close, the next time the timing mark is lined up that is TDC compression stroke, this is when your rotor should be pointing at #1 on the cap.
I think you need to take a step back, come up with a plan to check things on at a time to validate they are correct. I have a feeling your issue is a combination of valve adjustment and ignition timing
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:09 AM
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Ok, let's backup and redo some things. Do these in the order mentioned.

#1. Readjust the valves. Let's start at #1 cyl. Turn the crank until both valves are closed. Loosen both the intake & exhaust valve rocker arms until you can slide a .010 feeler gauge between the rocker arm and the valve stem. Repeat this step to the rest of the cylinders.

#2. While readjusting the valves on #1 cylinder, check to make sure you are at TDC on your pointer. With both valves closed on #1, you should be at TDC and the compression stroke.

#3. When, and only when you are positive #1 is at TDC, pull the distributor cap and look at where the rotor tang is pointing. If you are looking down on top of it, it should be pointing between 5 o'clock & 6 o'clock. Now sit the distributor cap back on and make sure that the plug wire to #1 cyl. is lining up with the rotor tang. If the two don't match, you need to pull the distributor and turn it to the correct position.

#4. After verifying everything is in line, reinstall the distributor cap but leave the valve covers loose. If it starts, let it run 20 minutes @ 2000 rpm for cam breakin. Let us know if it starts and we can go through the valve adjustments.
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