Hot Rod Forum banner

Lifter choice

11K views 29 replies 11 participants last post by  AutoGear 
#1 ·
I'm going to remove the high duration low lift cam from my engine and install a comp xe268. I have new in the box a set of 812-16 comp lifters that are intended for another engine but I could use them. Is there a difference between these and a set of Rhoads lifters? I've always heard of Rhoads being a brand of choice but is there really a difference?
 
#2 ·
Yes and the choices are somewhat limited. There's only a few companies making quality lifters and a lot of others are just rebranded stuff.

The Comps will do you nicely but if you were to get new ones then I think the EDM from comp are better to use. The Cetra-Lube ones are good too.
 
#3 ·
Rhoads are "fast bleed" lifters, intended to take the "lump" out of too much cam. XE268H isn't all that "big". We use Sealed Power lifters in ALL flat-tappet hydraulic builds. No issues. A true Eaton lifter. We've had issues with Comp 852s (Pontiac) "oiling" the rockers.

Charlie Reichart (Cam Craft) sent around a "flyer" about fast-bleed lifters, calling them a "patch for a poor cam choice". In olden times they were okay (better than nothing). Today, there are literally hundreds of cam grinds to choose from, without needing special lifters to make it "fit" your application.

FWIW

Jim
 
#8 · (Edited)
Comp Cams 812-16 High Energy lifters are good for stock and mild hydraulic high performance camshafts with valve duration less than 225 degrees at .050" lifter rise. Those lifters are good for 5,300 RPM before pump up and valve float occurs. They are considered "anti pump up" lifters with a piddle-valve under the pushrod seat. All stock GM and aftermarket lifters used in GM V8 engines have been anti pump up lifters since 1967. Wire pushrod seat retainer.

Comp Cams 858-16 Pro Magnum lifters are limited travel lifters that require fully adjustable valve train with poly locks. They set at .002" - .004" lifter preload, similar to lash with solid lifters. They will not pump up and float the valves because there is nowhere for the lifters to pump up to. They are a good choice for any hydraulic flat tappet camshaft if you have a fully adjustable valve train with poly locks to maintain the lifter preload. Pontiac introduced these lifters with the Ram Air 4 engines in 1969. The original GM limited travel lifters were Melling JB951R lifters. Melling discontinued those lifters in 1990 but other aftermarket suppliers of high performance engine parts are still producing them. C-clip pushrod seat retainer.

Comp Cams 880-16 Hi Tech lifters are fast bleed lifters like Rhodes lifters. They provide extra low RPM power with a radical long duration (over 300 degrees) camshaft. Noisy at low RPM and will increase cam lobe wear. Not recommended for street use. C-clip pushrod seat retainer.
 
#9 ·
The comp lifters I have came in a set with timing set and cam for another engine I'm putting together. The duration on the cam it came with is well over 225. It's up into the 240 range. I have also a set of frame lifters that came with the 268 cam but there is light swirl makes on the lifter face so I'm thinking they are use. The valve springs on the heads I'm using are need stock rating but I didn't figure it would be good to use this lifters.
 
#10 ·
Don't use those lifters with that camshaft. Why use lifters that will pump up and float the valves between 5,000 - 5,300 RPM with a camshaft that is capable of producing good power at 6,000 RPM.

Those lifters are stock replacement lifters. In 1995, I used a set of the High Energy lifters with a CC 268H camshaft and could never adjust the noise out of them. The High Energy lifters are not compatible with the fast cam lobe ramps of the CC 268H camshaft.
I removed those lifters a week later and installed a set of Pro Magnum limited travel lifters. Now the Pro Magnum limited travel hydraulic lifters are the only ones I use. They are especially good for class drag racing if the camshaft must be a hydraulic lifter camshaft. They are "cheater" lifters.
 
#13 ·
I have the cam in now with the new comp lifters so now I'm looking for the best break in info. I have some Brad Penn and some basic conventional, do I use Brad Penn plus break in lube or do I just use the Brad Penn by itself or use conventional with lube and put in the Brad Penn after break in?
 
#14 ·
I would use Lucas Oil break in oil for 20-30 minutes then drain and BP regular forever.
IF your using what you have then I would use the Conventional plus lube for 20-30 minutes and switch to the BP.
Also remove the inner springs or use a 1:3 rocker if using a dual springs.
 
#17 ·
Yep, its the open pressure that kills cams, not the seat pressure.

Jake40, there is no way you can tell a 40+lb difference in open pressure with the spring compressor tool...remove the inner springs or you'll be doing this all over again, no matter what break-in lube you use.
 
#21 ·
GM hardface hydraulic lifter p/n 52332720. This is my lifter of choice, it uses a hardened face it is expensive at about 4 times the price of regular soft face lifters often you can find deals at only about twice the price of regular lifters on Ebay. The issue is one of metallergy not that spring pressures and RPMs don't count but what you want where two metals are rubbing each other is a difference in hardness of the same type metal or use chemically dissimilar metals. The problem of wear is largely one of micro welding where two similar metals are in rubbing contact they want to weld to each other. This is reduced when one has different mechanical or chemical properties. The hard faced lifter offers a reduced tendency to micro weld to the cast iron camshaft. Another way is to spring for the optional nitride treatment Comp offers then use regular soft face lifters. Cost is about the same for nitride as for hard faced lifters.

Use only new lifters, the only exception is when reusing an old cam with its lifters but only with each on its originally mated lobe and both lobe and lifter face are in good condition.

The XE268H is not so radical that it needs Rhoads or any other fast leakdown lifter. It's actually a very interesting cam that holds up bottom end torque while providing a good top end power rush. But it does have a pretty fast lift rate and short ramps so with today's oils it can be touchy on wear without surface treatments to it or the lifters and of course careful break-in.

Bogie
 
#26 ·
GM hardface hydraulic lifter p/n 52332720. This is my lifter of choice, it uses a hardened face it is expensive at about 4 times the price of regular soft face lifters often you can find deals at only about twice the price of regular lifters on Ebay. The issue is one of metallergy not that spring pressures and RPMs don't count but what you want where two metals are rubbing each other is a difference in hardness of the same type metal or use chemically dissimilar metals. The problem of wear is largely one of micro welding where two similar metals are in rubbing contact they want to weld to each other. This is reduced when one has different mechanical or chemical properties. The hard faced lifter offers a reduced tendency to micro weld to the cast iron camshaft. Another way is to spring for the optional nitride treatment Comp offers then use regular soft face lifters. Cost is about the same for nitride as for hard faced lifters.
I've found the Comp cam 268 to be a good daily driver cam with increased low end torque and a mild lope in a 350 Chevy. I agree about lifters. Also, Comp cam lifters would be my choice with their cam. However,my cam and lifter of choice( though a little pricey ) last and Outperform comparable size cams Greatly are the ISKENDERIAN cams and their Super Hydraulic 202HY anti-pump up lifters with Snap ring locks.Gaureenteed to 7000RPM. CHECK OUT ISKY.COM. OTHERS advice here is Right On Also! Good Luck!
Use only new lifters, the only exception is when reusing an old cam with its lifters but only with each on its originally mated lobe and both lobe and lifter face are in good condition.

The XE268H is not so radical that it needs Rhoads or any other fast leakdown lifter. It's actually a very interesting cam that holds up bottom end torque while providing a good top end power rush. But it does have a pretty fast lift rate and short ramps so with today's oils it can be touchy on wear without surface treatments to it or the lifters and of course careful break-in.
Also, I recommend adding a good racing oil containing Zinc for proper breakin. I also boost the oil pressure in my sbc engines by adding a washer (correct size specific) maybe .020 thickness behind the pressure spring.If you have more than .0015 oil clearance on the rod and main bearings use two washers. I usually have one half thousandths less oil clearance than average But with More oil pressure,(average oil pressure is 60-85 psi from idle to 6500 rpm.) for my engines.
Bogie
. By the way that oil pressure is with 10 w 40 weight .
 
#24 ·
Break in went well, I used rural king oil with 2 bottles of comp break in lube to fill the 8qt pan. Car is spunky now and will get up and go pretty good for having crap gears. Now I have a question coming from curiosity, would a 462 double hump head be a better head than the 416? The 416's are 58cc and stock, the 462 are 64cc and stock as well.
 
#25 ·
462's with some mild rework seem to average on Stan Weiss' site around the following:
0.400 195/130
0.500 212/134
0.600 218/138

But I think the runners are small by todays standards ~160 and 64cc + chambers.
The 416's seem to max out for most people around 185-200cfm with ~165 runners and 58cc + chambers.

Both need a significant amount of work; incl hardened exhaust valve seats, new valve jobs, new guides etc etc.

Buy a set of Vortecs and a used intake manifold; sell off your -462's and your -416's, along with the intake. Be money ahead and make probably ~40HP right off the bat.
 
#28 ·
That may be ok too,but I actually read In the GM Power Manual a few years back that 60-85PSI is ideal for some Racing,so that's what I run.Now at idle 650rpm my oil pressure is about 20psi but soon as I hit 2000rpm ,it's 55 to 60,depending on temperatures and the oil weight(10w 30,40 or 20w50.) .Each to his own ,I just figure with old style hydraulic cam and lifters without the Zinc in the oil (unless you run that type racing oil all the time) the higher flooding of oil to the cam and lifters May extend the Cam And Lifter life.Just my opinion but has worked for my engine. And I live in the Country ,so I take mine out and Torture it some times at 5500 to 7000 RPM AS WELL AS GOOD OLD FASHIONED BURN OUTS! BOTH WHELS OF COURSE! Open for suggestions too,handy7rick
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top