Lifter pic from perf. RPM package. - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:48 AM
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Lifter pic from perf. RPM package.

Here is the lifter out of the engine I did not to long ago. It probobly has 1 hour run time. This is out of a 350 with the performer Rpm package.

It was #4 cylinder intake valve. At the track it still ran a 13.5-14. seconds we are guessing with a stop watch and the video. This is with it running on 7 cylinders and the carb bogging down the track.
The video we have will not upload. Is there a certain way to upload a video?
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Old 07-02-2008, 07:02 AM
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Ouch!!! For a video a lot of people upload them to http://www.youtube.com/ and then post a link directly to it.
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Old 07-02-2008, 08:49 AM
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Looks like a break in problem... or wrong... spring pressure... oil used.
Did you check EVERYTHING???
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:07 PM
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Yep checked guide plates, and adjusted the valves 3/4 turn. As far as the valve springs it was suposed to be matched. Like I said Edlbrock performer RPM, PACKAGE.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:26 PM
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been there, make sure you clean out that motor good all the metal from the lifter is now through out the motor. that is why I will only build a roller motor today. sorry man, that sucks
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Old 07-02-2008, 03:49 PM
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Can you document your break-in routine from start-to-finish? Something must have caused this and I'd like to know what, as I'll be breaking a new cam in on my own motor soon! Maybe not relevant, but 3/4 turn might be a little too much pre-load on the lifters? I'm going to do 1/2 turn past zero lash. Also, on the point, how did you determine zero lash? What oil did you use during break-in? Did you use any EOS or other form of ZDDP additive? What cam lube did you use on the lobes and how much of it did you use? What RPM did you use during break-in and for how long? How much cranking went-on before the engine fired for the first time? Did you prime the oil pump first? Did you rotate the engine by hand to check for rocker-to-retainer clearance? 1.5 ratio rockers?

Ian.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
As far as the valve springs it was supposed* to be matched
Single with damper? Duals? What springs specifically (mfr P/N)? Seat pressure? What installed ht? What oil during break-in?



Quote:
Suppose
*Main Entry: supĚpose
1 a: to lay down tentatively as a hypothesis, assumption, or proposal
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:00 AM
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I let the lifters soak for 2 days and pumped them every day to make sure they were ready to go. Assembly lube that came with the kit was used and an additional bottle of cam lube made from Permatex was used on all valve train se pic. Left over lube was pured on the cam with the intake off. The chain got a shot of grease to make sure there was something on the chain when cranked. Found out the distributor was 180 off due to installing the chain at 6 and 12 not 12 and 12, but cranking wasnt extended noticed after it poped through the carb the second time. Zero lash was found by turning the pushrod and tightening the rocker nut till there was resistance on turning the push rod, then from there 3/4 turn and locked the nut down. It fired and did not stall or any thing. Took it to over 2,000 rpm varying the r's higher. About 15 minutes into the breakin it started to tap. After that I adjusted the rockers again. Took it to 2,000 again for 5 minutes and sounded like it was ticking. There you have it.

The oil I used was Rotella straight 30 weight. Yes I primed the system.

So what do you think?
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stroke
Single with damper? Duals? What springs specifically (mfr P/N)? Seat pressure? What installed ht? What oil during break-in?
Also: b (1): to hold as an opinion : believe <they supposed they were early> (2): to think probable or in keeping with the facts <seems reasonable to suppose that he would profit>
2 a: conceive, imagine b: to have a suspicion of
3: presuppose
intransitive verb
: conjecture, opine

Now Quit strokin off
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n-gin
I let the lifters soak for 2 days and pumped them every day to make sure they were ready to go. Assembly lube that came with the kit was used and an additional bottle of cam lube made from Permatex was used on all valve train se pic. Left over lube was pured on the cam with the intake off. The chain got a shot of grease to make sure there was something on the chain when cranked. Found out the distributor was 180 off due to installing the chain at 6 and 12 not 12 and 12, but cranking wasnt extended noticed after it poped through the carb the second time. Zero lash was found by turning the pushrod and tightening the rocker nut till there was resistance on turning the push rod, then from there 3/4 turn and locked the nut down. It fired and did not stall or any thing. Took it to over 2,000 rpm varying the r's higher. About 15 minutes into the breakin it started to tap. After that I adjusted the rockers again. Took it to 2,000 again for 5 minutes and sounded like it was ticking. There you have it.

The oil I used was Rotella straight 30 weight. Yes I primed the system.

So what do you think?
Sounds pretty-much text book, except pumping the lifters prior to installing them. I've read that this can cause issues and is not recommended. That, in addition to 3/4 turn pre-load, maybe a potential issue? Also, no ZDDP or EOS in the oil? 1.5 ratio rockers?
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:41 AM
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Yes 1.5 rockers, and the preload was what Edlbrock's teck department recamended, also Summit racing.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:18 AM
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Dont know that it means much but every set of edelbrock lifters I have gotten has a big pink piece of paper in with them that says DONT PUMP UP LIFTERS. Should you have broken in the cam with lighter springs?
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:48 AM
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According to the info in post #1 and #8.

You broke in the engine with SM rated Rotella and no additive.

Even when using additive, mix the additive well with the 5 quarts of oil BEFORE putting it in the engine. You don't want to wait 3 minutes for the additive to mix with the oil.

Cranking the engine even 8-10 rounds wipes most of the cam lube off the lifters.

Break-in springs should have been used, or if dual springs, the inners should have been removed at minimum.

Break-in rocker arms could have been used.

Next set of lifters I recommend the oil-hole-on-the-face type and a nitrided cam. Unless you can go roller.

I can only conclude that "Yes I primed the system" means that constant pressure was applied as the engine was turned through 720*.

Me? I don't think 20 minutes break-in is long enough. Neither do a lot of hp builders, and CompCams has info on their web site indicating 45 minutes is better.

old saying = If you can't afford to do it right the first time, how much will it cost to do it over?

Last edited by ScoTFrenzel; 07-03-2008 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoTFrenzel
Break-in springs should have been used, or if dual springs, the inners should have been removed at minimum.

Break-in rocker arms could have been used.
I've only ever read info saying to remove the inner spring if dual springs are being used. Maybe if using very beefy singles, you should downgrade to a lighter spring during break-in, but I wouldn't think the Edelbrock springs are in that category; the RPM cam maxes-out at 0.510" lift at the valve with 1.5:1 rockers and the springs are ~110lbs seat pressure. Certainly, none of the cam companies recommend changing singles out for 'break-in' springs, AFAIK. I've never heard of using 'break-in' rocker arms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoTFrenzel
Me? I don't think 20 minutes break-in is long enough. Neither do a lot of hp builders, and CompCams has info on their web site indicating 45 minutes is better.

old saying = If you can't afford to do it right the first time, how much will it cost to do it over?
I think this is unfair... it wasn't a case of him not being able to 'afford do to it right'. His break-in procedure was pretty good. If anything, I'd say pre-pumping the lifters is what MAY have caused this. Also, if he primed the oil pump by turning the engine over, then that definitely could've been a contributory factor. Also, signs of things going South started after 15 mins into the break-in, so the length of break-in wasn't really a factor.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:29 AM
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V8hed I agree everything I've read always says don't pump up the lifters. During cam breakin would be especially bad.
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