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Old 05-12-2011, 07:05 AM
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Lifter Question

What makes my lifters keep tapping after cam breakin ?
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:45 AM
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lifter tapping....

hi,maybe the lifters have a little varnish on them,put in a quart of transmission fluid,its super hi-detergent oil,it will clean everything in the engine,change oil after 40-50 miles or so,(change filter also)
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alrobjr
What makes my lifters keep tapping after cam breakin ?
I would start by visually inspecting the valve train under the valve cover. Look at the stud(s) that the loose rockers are on. Be sure that the stud hasn't pulled out of the head (it is a tight press-fit) unless you have screw in studs and guide plates. Usually, a pulled stud can be seen as the stud being higher than the others along w/the rocker arm being too loose, a simple straight edge placed atop the row of studs or sighting across the stud tops will show it if it's pulled.

Depending on the heads you have (what are they, BTW?) they may need self aligning rockers or guide plates, but never both.

Be sure you don't have a broken spring or damper, and that all your clearances and specs are correct. Here's a list of some areas of the valve train that need to be verified. This is a general guide, and is not all-inclusive, and not everything here will apply to your noise:
  • Springs for installed height
  • Coil bind
  • Retainer to seal/valve guide boss at full lift
  • Retainer to rocker
  • Trunnion to stud boss
  • Piston-to-valve clearance (both before and after TDC on overlap)
  • Push rod to guide slot in head (if used)
  • Can use EITHER self-aligning rockers OR pushrod guide slots in head OR guide plates, not two or more of these at the same time
  • ”Rails” of self aligning rockers (if used) to retainer
  • Rocker to valve tip (by adjusting guide plates if used)
  • Rocker slot to stud (if using stamped rockers w/pivot balls)
  • Proper geometry (push rod length)
  • Rocker/polyloc to valve cover or baffle
  • Camshaft endplay
  • Distributor shaft and gear endplay
  • Distributor gear material compatible with cam material
  • Hydraulic lifter preload or solid lifter lash setting
  • Timing set phasing
  • Cam gear to crank gear alignment
  • Cam gear end play if roller cam
  • If using the SBC OEM roller lifters and retainers (aka dogbones), lobe lift must be kept below 0.354” so the lifters don’t lose contact w/the retainers
  • Cam lobe to connecting rod on strokers

Now if everything looks fine, go ahead and readjust the valves, either w/the engine running (makes a hell of a mess, but is nearly fool proof), or by using the following procedure:

The one I cite is from Crane Cams, and is known as the "EO/IC Method":

Firing Order: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Distributor rotates CW.
Remember the valves go: E I I E E I I E

Adjusting Hydraulic Lifters for Proper Preload

EO/IC Method (Exhaust Opening/Intake Closing)

In order to adjust the preload, the lifter must be properly located on the base circle or "Heel" of the lobe.

At this position the valve is closed and there is no lift taking place. You will need to watch the movement of the valves to determine which lifter is properly positioned for adjusting.

1. Remove the valve covers, and pick a cylinder that you are going to set the preload on.

2. Hand rotate the engine in its normal direction of rotation and watch the exhaust valve on that particular cylinder. When the exhaust valve begins to open, stop and adjust that cylinder's intake rocker arm. (Why? Because when the exhaust valve is just beginning to open, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the lobe, the correct position for adjusting the intake.)

3. Back off the intake rocker arm adjuster and remove any tension from the pushrod. Wait a minute or two for that hydraulic lifter to return to a neutral position. The spring inside the lifter will move the pushrod seat up against the retaining lock if you give it time to do so. (If you are installing brand new lifters they will be in the neutral position when they come in the box.)

4. Now spin the intake pushrod with your fingers while tightening down the rocker arm. (If you are uncertain that you are feeling the "Zero" setting, jiggling the push rod up and down will sometimes give a better sense of when all the clearance has been removed.) When you feel a slight resistance to the turning of the pushrod, you are at "Zero Lash". Turn the adjusting nut down one half to one full turn from that point. Lock the adjuster into position. The intake is now adjusted properly.

5. Continue to hand turn the engine, watching that same intake. It will go to full open and then begin to close.When it is almost closed, stop and adjust the exhaust rocker arm on that particular cylinder. (Again, when we see the intake almost closed, we are sure that exhaust lifter is on the base circle of the lobe.) Loosen the exhaust rocker arm and follow the same procedure described before in steps 3 and 4 to adjust this rocker arm.

6. Both valves on this cylinder are now adjusted, and you can move on to your next cylinder and follow the same procedure again.

If after inspecting and readjusting there's still noise, you might have a cam lobe going bad. You can measure the difference between being on the base circle of the cam to fully open to see if the lift is what it should be or if it's less than that- which could be a bad lobe/lifter foot. This can be done prior to readjusting the valves if you suspect it may be the problem, to avoid any unnecessary running of the engine.

Still noisy? You can try some of the chemical remedies, like Seafoam, Marvel Mystery Oil, etc. as was mentioned above by boatbob2, to see if that'll unstick the lifters if nothing else can be found to be the cause. You wouldn't expect all of them to have gotten debris in them, unless there was a LOT of crud left behind after the engine was machined and cleaned, but it could happen if dirty enough. If that doesn't work, the lifters can be removed individually (have to put them back on the same lobe they were broken in with), disassembled, cleaned, reassembled and reinstalled. That's a lot of work, but it's the best way to assure the cam won't me ruined by using new lifters on it.
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:10 AM
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How about those rocker arm studs and nut's?
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Old 05-31-2011, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatbob2
hi,maybe the lifters have a little varnish on them,put in a quart of transmission fluid,its super hi-detergent oil,it will clean everything in the engine,change oil after 40-50 miles or so,(change filter also)
I removed the intake and the I- lifter on # 5cylinder the plunger is stuck on the bottom & E-lifter on #7 cylinder is spongy , the cam lobes are fine .
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alrobjr
I removed the intake and the I- lifter on # 5cylinder the plunger is stuck on the bottom & E-lifter on #7 cylinder is spongy , the cam lobes are fine .
I'd suggest that you first clean the two lifters thoroughly before replacing them w/new lifters.

Keep the 'guts' separate for each lifter- the pistons are precision fitted to the lifter bore so keep the parts together. Using the same lifter back on the same lobe will be the safest way to go about this. A new lifter on an old lobe can ruin the lifter and lobe both, and that will mean a new cam and lifters and cleaning the engine internally.
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:21 AM
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Lifter problems solved!!!

I had a 350 that had an intermittent miss ever now and then so I started checking a few things out starting with the battery.

I replaced the plugs, wires, vacuum lines, and after still not finding the miss I replaced the compete distributor thinking maybe the shaft was shorting out and still I had this intermittent miss.

I friend of mine who has been building cars and chopping and channeling hot rods told me to add one quart of Marvel Mystery Oil and see if that helps the problem and sure enough once I did it and the miss was gone and has never returned.

A sticky lifter of all things will make it feel just like an electrical problem.

Jimbo
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