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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
Thanks. We were wondering about the gear ratio. Do you think maybe something like a 5.13 would be more what we need? The main reason we have not used the brake much is because of the stock 35 spline 9" axles. Being on a budget (of course) we are racing with these until I can afford some aftermarket axles. I sent the stock ones to Moser and had them shortened. We did'nt want to break an axle using the brake. Maybe we are too cautious about things but if something major breaks, we are out for a time. Just trying to have fun but looking for faster goals too if that makes sense. Changing gears would be cheaper than changing tire size I think if I can get the same result.
I probably would've started with 488's with that tire,BUT, Race car's are a little like women and have different personality's,sometimes its hard to know the best Ratio without some test & tune.

IMO to get in the 10's, your gonna have to get the car to leave harder with a little more gear and use the brake to hit the tire's HARD. With that said,with your stock 31 spline axle's,I would be a little concerned with that also.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
The tires were new and never installed until now, always kept inside. I was told the the blue pump was not enough by a guy at the track. He was running a blue pump from the rear to a mechanical pump. Do you think I need to install a mechanical pump too in addition to the Holley blue pump? It just did'nt seem to be having any fuel problems but I can't be sure to tell you the truth.
I've never had much luck with the blue pump. Maybe you should check into the black pump?
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:12 PM
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HEY! My 18 year old son is the driver and he's just starting out, give us a break! I don't need your suggestions if you're going to be like that. It's a new build and we did'nt know how it was going to act. It's just like anything else people build. Things go wrong and nobody wants to get hurt.
Nowhere before the quoted post did you mention your 18 year old. You posted about getting into the 10's and that is serious, as all motorsports are. Drag racing is a dangerous sport, hence the required safety equipment. I did state not trying to be a S/A, and did not think anything posted was out of line as far as anything goes. My point is that you say you have times you want to imporove on, but they are not conclusive of what could be, given you are running a bbc with solid cam and not bringing the engine into it's real powerband. You very well could get away with no brake, just foot launch and find yourself in the 10's with your bbc in your ride as it is now. I don't take the safety issue lightly and would not recommend doing anything stupid. If you are going to race, race. Racing is all about fun, win, lose or just going down the track. Tracks have test and tune specifically for what you seem to be asking but you need to know where you stand from a starting point 60'/ET/MPH etc. I was under the impression you had tried something(s). Many bbc rides with considerably more power (based on info posted) put it to the ground with lesser tire, rear end and axles than yours. Good luck.
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
The tires were new and never installed until now, always kept inside. I was told the the blue pump was not enough by a guy at the track. He was running a blue pump from the rear to a mechanical pump. Do you think I need to install a mechanical pump too in addition to the Holley blue pump? It just did'nt seem to be having any fuel problems but I can't be sure to tell you the truth.
Way back when I ran Holley fuel pumps I ran 2 blue pumps and 2, 1/2" lines to the front with two regulators tied together with a 3/8" NPT coupler on two of the outlets and the other two going to the carb. I went away from them when I had one quit going to the staging lanes in Cado Mills TX when I was leading the division in H/R points. That Monday I bought a Magna Flow (pre magna Fuel) Pro Star 500 and never had a fuel issue again.

What rear susp. do you have and what spring rate is on the rear? Are you recording the car leaving the line? I have my wife trained to get the tire and the tree in the frame to see how the car is reacting.

The CO7 is the compound of the tire not the part # look for a 5 digit # on the sidewall to see the recomended use for the tire. I am guessing you have an 18400 tire not an 18450 correct? The 18450 is a hard tail dragster tire that has a very soft sidewall that hates cars over 2000 LBS. I run them on my dragster and love them once you figure out the pressure they like. If you get the pressure to low on a hot track it will tire shake like mad.
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez
Nowhere before the quoted post did you mention your 18 year old. You posted about getting into the 10's and that is serious, as all motorsports are. Drag racing is a dangerous sport, hence the required safety equipment. I did state not trying to be a S/A, and did not think anything posted was out of line as far as anything goes. My point is that you say you have times you want to imporove on, but they are not conclusive of what could be, given you are running a bbc with solid cam and not bringing the engine into it's real powerband. You very well could get away with no brake, just foot launch and find yourself in the 10's with your bbc in your ride as it is now. I don't take the safety issue lightly and would not recommend doing anything stupid. If you are going to race, race. Racing is all about fun, win, lose or just going down the track. Tracks have test and tune specifically for what you seem to be asking but you need to know where you stand from a starting point 60'/ET/MPH etc. I was under the impression you had tried something(s). Many bbc rides with considerably more power (based on info posted) put it to the ground with lesser tire, rear end and axles than yours. Good luck.
Thank you for your concern. We are not long time racers and are just looking for suggestions from more experienced people. The parts we have were gotten because of price more than application because we are on a budget. I know that going fast cost money. I just thought if someone could help me choose what to do to get faster, it would be cheaper than just buying parts to try out. I also know that there will be some of that too but knowing whether to look at the engine, tranny setup or rearend setup would eliminate some of that. Knowing what area I should concentrate on would pay bigger dividends. The reason we cannot leave at full stall is that the brakes will not hold the truck over about 3800 rpm's. If you think I should go with a lower gear and leave off the tranny brake, I will invest in some aftermarket axles.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2009, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
Thank you for your concern. We are not long time racers and are just looking for suggestions from more experienced people. The parts we have were gotten because of price more than application because we are on a budget. I know that going fast cost money. I just thought if someone could help me choose what to do to get faster, it would be cheaper than just buying parts to try out. I also know that there will be some of that too but knowing whether to look at the engine, tranny setup or rearend setup would eliminate some of that. Knowing what area I should concentrate on would pay bigger dividends. The reason we cannot leave at full stall is that the brakes will not hold the truck over about 3800 rpm's. If you think I should go with a lower gear and leave off the tranny brake, I will invest in some aftermarket axles.
X2 on the axles,more than likely your gonna need them sooner or later. Better to upgrade them compared to breaking a axle and taking a chance of the shock load breaking any other diff parts. Any of your buddy's have a set of 31's you could borrow for a couple of runs? If so you could try it and see if your car like's a little more gear,that would give you a idea how it would react to a lower gear and make sure you won't run out of motor.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
Got a good deal on the tires & wheels so I used them. Shifting at 5000 and going thru the traps around 6000. I have the rev limiter set at around 6200 now. I had it set at 5500 but it would come on before the traps.
Shifting a 5k may be hurting you a little also. I would bet that motor would like a little more RPM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2009, 01:57 PM
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Your combination is capable of running much quicker than what you have
seen, getting it to reach it's potential is the fun part.

"Are the 60' times decent?"

No, target sixty foot times between 1.45-1.55. This is the place to start,
you need to get the sixty foot times down to get the truck to ET. With
slow 60 foot times more horsepower is needed to ET well.

Here's an example from my 68' Camaro. 1.52 60ft; 10.8 ET @ 123 MPH.
Lazy 60 foot with good MPH for a 10.8 ET.

Here's an example from a 96 Camaro stock eliminator. 1.419 60ft; 11.09
ET @ 119 MPH. Very quick 60 foot time for a 11.09 ET

IMO it's way too soon to decide if a lower gear is needed, you have plenty
enough first gear to get it to 60 foot. Later when you know how it will
run on the top end you can adjust rear end gear ratio to control RPM
where you need it.

Get some pictures of the tires on the starting line and inspect the track
just after it launches to determine what the tires and chassis are doing.

Next work on the tune up. Once the 60 foot time are dialed in, concentrate
on mid range and top end power. Look for 0.01 second here and there and
you will soon reach your goal. Raise the shift point 200 RPM at a time to
get a feel for what it likes.

As for fuel delivery, disconnect the lines to the carburetor and time the
volume pumped. Target one gallon pumped in less than 25 seconds.

Last edited by automotive breath; 06-07-2009 at 02:10 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2009, 05:39 PM
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You may want to just get the axles now, they are required by the rules to be aftermarket as soon as you run in the 10's anyway.

What ignition system and timing #'s are you using?

Air cleaner?

Raise that shift point 1000-1200 rpm. If it's gonna blow, it's gonna blow. It won't matter if you baby it for a few weeks, it's still gonna break.

I believe either Moroso, Mr Gasket, or Quick Fuel sells a stiffer relief spring for the blue pump to increase the pressure to the black pump specs.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2009, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
Ok guys, I finally got the S10 on the track with alot of help from here. Here are the times from the first 2 runs.

R/T 60 Ft. 330 Ft. 1/8th Mile MPH 1000 Ft. 1/4 Mile MPH

.344 1.822 4.874 7.457 94.90 9.702 11.614 117.09
.115 1.685 4.732 7.333 93.95 9.608 11.565 113.16

1989 S10
461 BBC
12.75:1 Compression running 110 Race Gas
Cast#215 heads with 2.19in - 1.88ex (has mild port work)
Comp Cams 294S x .595 lift both intake & exhaust
1.7 Scorpion Roller Rockers
Comp Cam Magnum pushrods (stock length)
Edelbrock Victor Jr. 454-O intake
1150 Dominator
TH400 w/4500 stall & transbrake
9" Ford Narrowed w/33x16.0x15 Hoosier Slicks
4:56 Gears w/Full spool


I would like to get into the 10's which I was surprised it didn't do anyway. What suggestions do you have to get me there? I noticed that using the transbrake actually slows the ET down so as of now, it's leaving on the footbrake. Are the 60' times decent?

Thanks
I notice 2 things, The 60' times are crap. You really need to look into what is causing that issue. Any vid of the passes??

Second the MPH is way off for that combo.That thing should easy MPH in the 125/130 zone.

IMO, I would not change anything untill you get some more pases under you belt. These guys have you fixing stuff that probably isn't wrong. Your son is younger and probably has not raced much, he need's to make more runs in it before you get it all messed up.

I have jumped in other peoples cars and run just as fast as they did, but i also have run much slower. Your son needs some time in the seat, get some better data and then we can start making one change at a time.


The only single thing i might change before the next time he runs it, Get rid of the mechanical pump on the motor, run a regulator. That blue pump, if it's in good working order will be fine for you. There are 1000's of 10 second cars with blue pumps on them.

can you do a cranking compression test for me, and also post all the cam spec's. I just don't have the time to look them all up.

Keith
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2009, 06:28 AM
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How much does it weigh?? Can you get her lighter in anyways??
Take rear and front videos on how she leaves.. Put chalk lines on the tires to see if actually spinning or is it leaving clean.. Do thing at a time and
record eng temps. / tire pressures before and after / tune up specs i.e. changes .. Might have a 10th or 2 in susp. mods.. Above all E N J O Y !!!
T.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:32 AM
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I agree with K-Star let him get some seat time before making a bunch of changes.A mid 11 car is plenty quick for now.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star
I notice 2 things, The 60' times are crap. You really need to look into what is causing that issue. Any vid of the passes??

Second the MPH is way off for that combo.That thing should easy MPH in the 125/130 zone.

IMO, I would not change anything untill you get some more pases under you belt. These guys have you fixing stuff that probably isn't wrong. Your son is younger and probably has not raced much, he need's to make more runs in it before you get it all messed up.

I have jumped in other peoples cars and run just as fast as they did, but i also have run much slower. Your son needs some time in the seat, get some better data and then we can start making one change at a time.


The only single thing i might change before the next time he runs it, Get rid of the mechanical pump on the motor, run a regulator. That blue pump, if it's in good working order will be fine for you. There are 1000's of 10 second cars with blue pumps on them.

can you do a cranking compression test for me, and also post all the cam spec's. I just don't have the time to look them all up.

Keith
Thanks Keith. I am not running a mechanical pump, just the Holley Blue from the rear of the truck near the fuel cell and I am running a regulator. I can't do a compession test until around the 20th as the truck is at home (Missouri) and I'm in Alabama for work. And yes, I really don't want to change parts if it's not going to make any difference but as I said before, I know there will be some trial and error to do in that respect. The motor pulls hard all the way thru the 1/4 and I am thinking that most of the problem is coming off the line and maybe the shift points. I know that the tires are alot of rubber to turn but I see cars all the time running 10 sec. with huge meats. Again, we are leaving off the footbrake at around 3800 -4000 rpm which is lower than the stall convertor. It is a 4500 stall. The problem with bringing the rpm's up to the stall is that the brakes will not hold it. I think that if we would leave off the transbrake at 4500, things would be much better than we are seeing. Again, this is a new build and alot of things have been done to the truck. It will take us a few more passes to see what and where it likes to run. If you have time, you can see some pictures here http://www.desselleracing.com
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2009, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
...we are leaving off the footbrake at around 3800-4000 rpm...
You are leaning on the converter too hard, stall to 1500 - 2500 and the
converter should flash into the RPM range of the engine
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automotive breath
You are leaning on the converter too hard, stall to 1500 - 2500 and the
converter should flash into the RPM range of the engine
So you think I need to reduce the launch RPM to between 1500 & 2500? Since it's a 4500 stall, I was assuming that we needed to be close to the stall at launch. Is my thinking wrong?
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