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Old 08-26-2002, 09:55 AM
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Post Lincoln V12 (267" not the 414")

I'e got a really sweet original 36 Zephyr, with the usual tired flathead laments. Leaky rear main, poor cooling, low oil pressure when hot. I know the thing to do will be remove oilpan, mike the mains & replace the bearings, replace the rope seal, etc. Does anyone have experience with these relics? how can I expect it to run? should I bite the bullet and jerk it out and do the full rebuild? I don't want to lay the car up for too long, but I don't want to cause further problems or busted hard parts. I plan to do most of the work myself, I've got many years of experience with OHV engines of all flavors, and would guess that I've rebuilt 25-30 engines over the years and built a handful of higher performance engines without incident in the past. I'm just a little worried about this venerable flathead. Experts? Will I be getting in over my head?

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Old 08-26-2002, 10:18 AM
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Cars and Parts has been running an excellent series on rebuilding a Packard V12. Valve silencers seemed to be the most difficult thing to replace in the rebuild. Take a look and maybe you'll see if it more difficult than you think.

I had the pan off my 40 Packard and it all looked pretty much same as any other engine. The only real problem it you have babbet bearings. When in high school I was working on a 46 GMC pickup with babbet bearings and I never did have the time to take out the crank and regrind and put in inserts.

If you are going to do it that would be the only way to go. I am having a guy do that for my 28 Franklin. I am using the main bearings since they are good but I am having rod bearing installed.

This will definitely not be a weekend project. Be prepared to spend a lot of time to do it right and find all the right parts. GOOD LUCK! It is very rewarding when you finish. No offense to hotrodders but is much easier to build a 32 deuce coupe that to restore one.

[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: Mertz ]</p>
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Old 08-26-2002, 11:16 AM
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Not poured bearings, they are replacable shells, that will be a help. I've heard that there are several different variations of tappets for these. One option will be later model V12 hydraulic tappets. More investigation I guess.
I can personally verify that building a rod is far easier than restoring a previously modified car to original configuration. I have done both in the past. I have vowed to never do it again (with fingers crossed if the right car shows up!)
BTW, my uncle likely built yout Franklin, or at least the engine. He worked at Franklin in Syracuse starting in the 20's, specifically he poured babbet bearings for the engines, when Franklin (Air Cool Motors by then) went out of business, he went to work in the only babbet bearing shop in Syracuse.

[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: Biggarmike ]</p>
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Old 08-26-2002, 01:08 PM
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Very interesting about your uncle. I think Franklins are one of the best engineered cars ever made. They had 3 valves back in 1913, were very early with hydralic brakes, flexible wood frames for rough roads, light weight aluminum block and body, plus lots more. Franklin also had an air cooled V12. They are listed with Packard and Pierce in a lot of articles on luxury and highly engineered cars.

I have not made the trek to Syracuse yet but someday when I get the car put back together I am going to drive it cross county from WA to NY. Does your uncle own a Franklin now? I would like to trade my Packard for a 1928 Sedan or Coupe.

Good thing you have insert bearings that will save you a lot of work. The Zephyr is a great car. I think early to mid 30s cars are the best designed of any era.

[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: Mertz ]</p>
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Old 08-27-2002, 05:21 AM
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If parts are available, I would go through it. Odds are if bearings are worn, rings are bad also. Egge Machine would be a place to start looking. Simular to rebuilding a flathead V8. You will need a valve spring tool to pull valves, looks something like a tierod fork. Only special tool I think you need. I have all the specs if you need them. If I can be of any help, let me know.
Jack
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Old 08-27-2002, 08:57 AM
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Mertz, My uncle has been dead for close to 30 yrs, he was working at Franklin during the 20's he'd be something around 105 by now! LOL. There is a fellow in Auburn NY who has a couple Franklins, He has (had?) a driveable '29 sedan which he has been trying to sell for years. (a solid #3) I'll check with a few guys and check to see if he ever sold it.

Thanks Jack, I'll e-you to get you in my address book in case I run into more than the normal amount of snags. I've checked with egge for gaskets and waterpump rebuilds, geez! this flathead stuff is even higher than parts for my favorite victim (FE) I'll never complain again about FE prices!
btw, I bought a set of original .030 over rings for the Lincoln in sealed original package on that famous auction site for $18, They will look cool on display, rather than using them.

[ August 27, 2002: Message edited by: Biggarmike ]</p>
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Old 08-27-2002, 09:32 AM
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I thought about the age of your uncle after I wrote the post then thought well people live longer and he may have started working at a young age. Oh, well. I would be interested in your followup on the Franklin.

I'm sure your looked through Hemmings for parts for the Zephyr. There is a guy that sells rings for most old cars, Watson I think, and he is reasonably priced. There is another guy that he works with that sells gaskets, again reasonable. I think if you check some of the vendors they maybe a little cheaper than Egge. For pistons though, Egge is probably the only place to go and get a quality product.

At any rate it sounds like a fun project!
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Old 08-27-2002, 07:41 PM
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The Early Ford V8 club is a great site for information on Ford cars such as yours.

http://www.earlyfordv8.org/
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Old 08-27-2002, 09:30 PM
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Try these <a href="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=" target="_blank">guys.</a>

The car is also probably a Classic according to their rules so you might try the Classic car forum also, beware of Peter Hartman. Very knowledgable folks over there if a little opinionated, for Gods sake don't tell them your going to hot rod the car even in jest. AHHH what the heck do it anyway, I would like to watch! :p
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Old 08-28-2002, 06:09 AM
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Thanks a lot Chuck, Now I'll be on the computer forever. All I need is another site to talk about old and classic cars. Did find a carb kit for my Studebaker.
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Old 08-28-2002, 12:50 PM
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Naw Chuck, it's not a classic according to those guys, K model Lincoln, yes, mass produced Packards, yes; very rare and early Lincoln Zephyr, not a classic. Not even if I wear a jacket with leather elbow patches and an ascot!
I'm somewhat of a purist when it comes to pre '60's cars myself. However, I'm not above cracking stones once in a while. There is a guy in my local club who is totally insane about no mods, ever. I mentioned that his 99 point Studebaker would be really cool with a 454 under the hood, I thought he would have a stroke! Another guy has a Clenet previously owned by Sly Stallone, low miles documented, etc. I refer to it as his kit car, and mention that it looks quite long for a Ford Fairmont even with the plastic bolt on body.
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I may have to just stop the oil leak for now. My wife saw an ad on here for a '58 Biscayne and knows enough to realize that my extra 383 roller stroker will drop right in. She has asked about add on air, side pipes, baby moons etc. Her line of questions hints that she may want her own flashback lead sled type rod. (like I don't have enough projects going) IMO, a '58 should be a 409 3x2, but, whatever! If she likes it, I'll build it.
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Old 08-28-2002, 03:11 PM
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