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Old 03-29-2004, 07:48 PM
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Loctite on Rocker Arm Studs and Head Bolts?

Hi all,
A friend of mine and me are installing a set of the aluminum Edelbrock Performer RPM heads (64cc) on a 383 stroker. Is it necessary to use loctite (blue) on the rocker arm studs (the heads came assembled, but we took the ARP studs out of the original 882's and want to install them instead)? Also, is it okay to use some good bearing grease instead of silicone or other non-hardening sealer on the head bolts. One more question (sorry) - is it absolutely necessary to use gaskacinch on the intake sides of the heads and on both sides of the intake gaskets?
Any advice would sure be appreciated!
Thanks, Marc.

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Old 03-29-2004, 08:05 PM
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You should use loctite blue or red on the studs because they see a lot of action and because some of stud holes may go through to the intake port and the loctite will act as a sealer. As far as the head bolts go, you don't want to use grease or silicone as a sealer. The best sealer here is a non-hardening teflon sealer or permatex. Using gaskacinch on the intake gasket is just to keep it in place. Don't coat the gasket, just use a couple of dabs or smears on the head side of the gasket.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:17 PM
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Tom,
thanks for the info. The buddy of mine that's helping me (actually, I'm really helping him - knows alot more about engine build-ups than me) bought some copper sealant spray which he used on the head gaskets (1003's). Since the spray gets really tacky, would this be an okay alternative to the gaskacinch for the intake gaskets as well?
Thanks again,
Marc.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:34 PM
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Do NOT use any sealer on the head gaskets. It will not help and will probably lead to leaks. No, the copper spray will not hold the intake gaskets in place.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:51 PM
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Well. that's a little disheartening, since he already sprayed the gaskets and installed them last nite. Kind of strange, too. He's worked in high performance shops for the last 7 years and he seemed to know what he was doing. I really hate the thought of removing the heads now and replacing them with ANOTHER set ( I just spent about 70 bucks on those). Do you think I should wait to see if they perform okay or start over with the new gaskets now?
Marc.
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Old 03-30-2004, 07:28 AM
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Fel-Pro is quite clear about not putting sealer on these gaskets. I have seen them leak and the only reason that could be found was the sealer. You may get lucky and they may not leak, but...............
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Old 03-30-2004, 07:37 AM
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Machine Shop Tom is very correct. Your buddy must be a high performance shop tear down man. Greased head bolts will leak, put a couple of cubes of stop leak (Bars Leak) in the block before you start it. GM and Ford are their biggest customers.
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:20 AM
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I agree no need to copper coat the Fel-Pro head gasket you are using. Chance are it will seal but, will be one big pain in the butt when it is time to disassemble. If you were using a steel shim head gasket or a copper head gasket, that is what the copper coat is made for.

On the head bolts as mentioned above you do not want to use grease or silicon. I prefer Permatex thread sealer (teflon).

Now on the rocker studs ARP rcommends using thread sealer (not red or blue loctite). I use the same Permatex thread sealer on my rocker studs (never had a problem). I believe Dart recommend thread sealer as well. In either case you need to seal the threads because some of the studs are in a water jacket.

Personally I think I would pull the heads now, while it is easy and accessible. $70 is not worth having to pull the heads in the car or pull the engine to fix. (IMO)

Royce
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:33 AM
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I agree with the above gearheads on everything.
Dart recommend's Permatex #2, it stays soft.
I use it also on my motors with no leaks.
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:36 AM
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You sure he's not talking about a set of Copper head gaskets, which you MUST use sealer on in order to get a reliable head seal?

Obviously anyone who's built three motors knows not to put sealer on fel-pro gaskets.

http://www.goodvibesracing.com/gasket_tech.htm
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Old 03-30-2004, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by camaroman7d
I agree no need to copper coat the Fel-Pro head gasket you are using. Chance are it will seal but, will be one big pain in the butt when it is time to disassemble. If you were using a steel shim head gasket or a copper head gasket, that is what the copper coat is made for.
Royce
Camaroman,
I believe the 1003's are the steel shim gaskets. They do have the steel ring shims around the cylinder openings. If these indeed are the steel shim gaskets, then are you saying it would be okay to leave them on (with the sealant)?
Thanks, Marc.

Hey guys,
YOU ARE GREAT! Thanks so much for the info. And Camaroman, the last questioned I asked you about whether the 1003's were considered the "steel shim" type gaskets - well, sorry to ask the dumb question - I called Federal Mogul and their tech not only verified your comment about what to use the copper sealant on, but he explained to me that steel shim gaskets are "all steel", not gaskets with steel rings (the 1003's). You guys are real life (and wallet) savers. IT WOULD be much easier to spend another $70 on gaskets now than to have to do a tear down later. And I'm also going to clean out the head bolt threads and use a non-hardening permatex sealer on them (and the rocker arm studs).
Thanks again, Marc.

BTW, I'll post a pic of the engine as soon as I get it back together.

Last edited by Bakdok; 03-30-2004 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 03-30-2004, 11:22 AM
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The 1003 are not steel shim gaskets. The 1003 are the composition competition/marine performance gaskets. They need no sealer.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:17 PM
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Bakdok, Good deal. That;s the way we learn. It was smart of you to double check with Federal Mogul. Glad we may have saved you from a possible problem. Sorry I didn't explain a steel shim gasket better. Hang in there, and remember it is ALWAYS cheaper and easier to do it right the first time.

Royce

Edit: Make sure you clean the threads in the block as well when you pull the heads off. If you have gease in the threads it will effect the thread sealer. Acetone, laquer thinner, or denatured alcohol will do the job.
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Old 03-30-2004, 08:25 PM
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Smile

Royce,
You couldn't be more right! And thanks to you and the rest of the guys, I AM learning! Thanks (once) again for the extra tip about cleaning out the threads. Will do buddy. Really appreciate the teaching. Keep up the good work!!!
Marc.

P.S. if I knew how to insert the icons correctly, I'd give you a BIG THUMBS UP!
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