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Old 12-22-2007, 12:22 PM
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Look at these Pics of my 454 - What the Heck is it?



http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t...a/PDRM2980.jpg



Ok - lets catch up here

about a month ago I reported I had coolant (antifreeze) in my oil - leaked into crankcase. When I pulled the intake I also noticed slight damage to the lifter bases on cyl's 7 & 8. Most of you guys told me to pull the engine and check the bearings and for cracks, etc. I argued with you because I was not prepared to do the work. Well here we are a month later. I pulled the motor. Never done this before - 1st time. I've got pics of it. I need help identifying what the heck this thing is.

This is a "3-stage" plan I have for this winter

STAGE 1) to find out what the heck is inside my motor - I bought it from somebody else a few years ago who just refitted with with .060 overbore TRW pistons - but he was an idiot (and so was I).

STAGE 2) to determine if there is any bearing damage to mains and rods or anything else - and do repairs if needed (hope not)

STAGE 3) to install a solid roller cam setup

This is a 454 block - obviously it's a 2-bolt. Has a .060" overbore

look at the picture of the casting numbers - that might help a bit

Not sure about the crank. I know it's a 4.25" stroke. It looks like its "internally balanced". am I right? Appears to have slugs of heavy metal drilled into it. No weights on the flexplate. No weights on the balancer.

Is this crank forged or cast? I can tell. What should I look for? There are a bunch of numbers on it - I don't know what they mean

How about the rods and rod bolts? do they look ok - or are the junk?

Is it ok to pull a rod bearing cap and check the bearing? If it's ok, do I just put it back on and torque it down or must I do something different?

Is it ok to pull a main cap (which one) and check the bearing. If it's ok, do I just put it back on and torque it down or must I do something different?

Last edited by leejoy; 12-22-2007 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 12-22-2007, 12:50 PM
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All BB Chevys say "Hi Perf-Pass"......

On the block right in front of where the passenger side head bolts on, there is a number stamped.......it ends in 2 or 3 letters. You need to look these letters up to determine what your engine is....

heres a couple of sites...

http://www.mortec.com/

http://www.nastyz28.com
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Old 12-22-2007, 01:46 PM
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appears to a be a aftermarket forged crank. Look at the parting lines.
if you dissassemble it keep everything in absolute order. Punch mark the main caps. Punch mark (number) the rods and caps if they are not already marked.
Keep all the bearings in order (upper on rod) (lower on cap)
If you want to remove a cap and inspect, you must clean the cap and bearing backside with lacquer thinners. The back of the bearing and the inside dia of the rod cap must be clean and dry, oil free. If you remove the pistons be very care full of the skirts. Watch the rod bolts on the crank journal. Put a piece of hose on the rod bolts as you remove the pistons. The piston should be at the bottom of its bore (crank rotation) when you remove it. Use labeled zip lock baggies, to bag every thing in order. makes it a lot easier to reassemble it.
baggies are cheap. Keep everything in order and labeled.
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Old 12-22-2007, 01:51 PM
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is that the colour of the oil?
Post some pics of the lifter bore damage.
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Old 12-22-2007, 01:53 PM
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454

I've only had one BBC, and my partner blew it all to @#$%! In the second photo, there appears to be a gasket between the oil pump and rear main cap (?), never seen that before.The rods have at least aftermarket bolts/nuts, but the rod caps don't look "Chevrolet" to me, so the rods are probably aftermarket also. Same with the crank, it looks too finished for a stock piece. Pistons are forged. Where's the oil pump pick-up screen? You take it off or or did'nt it have one? The oil dripping from the pump looks "milky", but you already said you had water in the oil. You're right about the mallory metal and converted to internal balance. You're going to have to tear the short block down, clean and check everything, have the block tanked and magged for cracks to rule it out as the source of your water contamination problem. Did the head gaskets show signs of leaking water? You'll probalbly have to go through the heads also if you have'nt pin pointed the source of your water leak problem with tear down. And then, careful recheck and reassembly with new rings, bearings, and gaskets. Sorry. Anyone else?
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:10 PM
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Look at the Pics of my 454 - What the Heck is it?

nice
if you left the heads and intake on and plugged the heater hose outlets,
you could have pressure tested it with the pan off and had a look see where the water leak was .
be prepaired for rust spots on the crank if you ran it with water in oil .
polish the crank and lube it up good as you remove it .
dump the bearings .
mark all parts as stated earlier .
magnaflux the block for cracks
it may have been the head bolts stretched or was there any sealer on the head bolts .
did any bolts feel loose when you took them loose ?
or did you impact them loose ?

have a merry ho ho and happy new year
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:30 PM
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Re:Look at these Pics of my 454 - What the Heck is it?

Casting # 361959 is a 454 used from 1973 to 1990. What is the casting number on the heads? It's under your valve cover. This will help narrow what year and if it's a open or closed chamber. What are the letters/numbers stamped on the front of the head?
This is from MORTEC. It will help you find the casting #'s.
Casting number and casting date locations

The diagram above shows where each of the casting identifiers is located on the engine. (1) shows the location of the HEAD CASTING NUMBERS and the HEAD CASTING DATE located under the valve covers, in the rocker arm valley. (2) shows the position of the BLOCK CASTING DATE on the rear ledge of the block near the bell housing mounting surface. If you have an early big block or a late model smallblock, the BLOCK CASTING DATE may be on the passenger side of the engine block, (see 2A), instead of the rear ledge of the block. Some smallblock blocks may also have the BLOCK CASTING DATE on the driver's side of the block. (3) indicates the position of the BLOCK CASTING NUMBER. Later blocks may also have the size of the engine displacement in liters listed at (3). (4) indicates the position of the ENGINE ASSEMBLY DATE/SUFFIX CODE and partial VIN code information on the front of the block. (5) on the rear flange of the block, on the drivers side near the oil filter pad, is an alternate block location for some VIN codes. (6) indicates the sides of the block where some blocks may have the size of the motor indicated in cubic inches or in liters. The last three numbers of the block casting number may also be repeated in this location.
One thing to keep in mind is the guy you got this motor from may have put it together with parts from other sources. Can you get hold of him and see if he has any info.You ask is it a forged crank?



Looking at the counterweights is a dead giveaway. A forged crank's counterweights (left) will generally have a rougher look with rounded edges, while a cast crank (right) by comparison will show sharp, well-defined edges.
The casting process results in greater control of the net shape in the forming process, which is evident from visual clues in the finished crankshaft. Looking at the counterweights is a dead giveaway. A forged crank's counterweights (left) will generally have a rougher look with rounded edges, while a cast crank (right) by comparison will show sharp, well-defined edges. A second visual check can be made by viewing the parting line that defines where the casting core or forging dies separated. A cast crank will have a thin, sharp, and straight parting line (left), while the parting line on a forging will be wide and generally less defined (right).
A second visual check can be made by viewing the parting line that defines where the casting core or forging dies separated. A cast crank will have a thin, sharp, and straight parting line (left), while the parting line on a forging will be wide and generally less defined (right). For the visually challenged, a forged crank can be identified by ear. A forging will ring like a bell when tapped on the counterweight with a steel hammer, while a casting will give a dull thud.
Look at the top of the piston. If it is really a .060 overbore 60 or 060 will be stamped on the top of the piston. What ever the bore, the piston will have the size stamped on it. If the crank has been worked on, the back of the bearing shell will have a size on it also. Rod and main.Hope this helps you some.
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:08 PM
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Most likely an Eagle or other offshore aftermarket crank and yes does look like a 4.25 stroke from looking at the rod side clearance and yes is internaly balanced... Also the rods have ARP bolts and appear to be the 7/16ths type... (this is a good thing) Also the pistons are forged as looking from the bottom...

As for bearing checks do the front main bearing to see what has gone through the whole crank... Also would pull the rear main to look at the thrust side too... That gasket looking deal is kinda strange to inbetween the oil pump and rear main cap as pointed out by someone...? As for rod bearings I would also check the pair up at the front of the engine as these too are the last to see the oil and other things that go round and round... (fine particles and such)

If everything looks fine then the only change I would make it is to get a set of main studs...? I think your water issue was back at the heads...? I never heard as the out come of #4 or #6 that had the really clean valves...? (dont remember which one...?)
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:13 PM
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well........

I pulled of the front main cap and checked the bearing - there was a little bit of "scoring" on it, as if a tiny piece(s) of metal filings got inbetween the main journal and the bearing and scored a line through the bearing. It's not bad - probably fine, but I should probably change them right? The bearing is definitely not "new" looking.

Also, I pulled the #1 rod bearing. Same thing. It also has "scoring" lines on it - as if a piece of metal got in there. I should probably change all those too right? The rod bearing is a Clevite 77 CB743P (standard) size.

I measured the rod journal. It was 2.200". Is that correct?

I measure the crank journal. It was about 2.748". Is that correct

Question: Do I have to pull the pistons out to change the bearings? It looks like I can keep the pistons in there and change the bearings. Is that right?
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:27 PM
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454

Looking at the photos again I think the little ends of the rods are full floating and the crank is one of those "cast steel 9000" types. Rods are probably one step above stock from offshore along with the crank. At least you can disasemble this pretty much youself right down to the pistons/rods. Keep everyone posted.,
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Old 12-22-2007, 08:10 PM
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I'm thinking that if something has gone through the oil galleries and has scored the bearings ... it's time for a thorough disassembly and cleaning.

Paying for Cleaning, Inspecting, Magnafluxing, Rings, Bearings, and Gaskets at this stage of the game are probably going to cost less now than after a catastrophic failure. Have the block and heads checked for warpage as well.

Finally ... spend the money for a NEW oil pump pickup. Cleaning an old screen is the worst thing you could ever do to a remanufactured engine. You never get 100% of the crap out of them ... you simply dislodge it.

I sold Ford authorized reman engines for several years, and installing a NEW screen was a condition of warranty. If they found crud in (or damage to) the oil pump that could be attributed to a used pickup ... sorry ... no warranty.
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Old 12-22-2007, 08:20 PM
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The rods dont look like GM units for sure (look sorta like an Eagle SIR...?)... I would bet this was one of those rotating assemblies from a vendor like on racingjunk.com...? Might be a full floating rod/piston assy but unless the oiling holes are on top they are most likely pressed pin...

junior stocker... Good eye on the crank... I wasnt sure it was a forged unit but could not put my thumb on it till you posted about the cast steel 9000 cranks which is just what that is... The appearance was messing with my eye`s and I have only seen one and it as a SBC too...

leejoy... That is a good 6000rpm max bottom end be sure to target you cam for no more or you will end up building something else... Also post pic`s of the bearings and the crank journals and yes you can change bearings without removing the pistons... But how much metal did you find in the pan...? Those fine pieces get into the skirts of the pistons and will cause very premature wear... Also be sure to take the oil pump apart and check the machined surfaces of the pump & gears... Any real scuffing or scratches in the pump will also give clues to the condition of everything...

More pic`s...!!!
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Old 12-22-2007, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leejoy
Not sure about the crank. I know it's a 4.25" stroke. It looks like its "internally balanced". am I right? Appears to have slugs of heavy metal drilled into it. No weights on the flexplate. No weights on the balancer.
How do you know it's a 4.250 stroke? if it is and the bore is 060 over the motor is a 489-490 ci (what they call a 496 when bored to 4.310).
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Old 12-24-2007, 08:36 AM
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I'll keep the pictures coming. I need your help. My first time. I will do as you guys say as budget permits. I don't have much money - maybe hundreds, not thousands. I can't do EVERYTHING you guys say even though it might be good advice. I will do what I feel "needs" to be done and nothing more. I don't have thousands of dollars to give to a machine shop to do every possible procedure known to mankind to fully recondition the block, heads, crank and rods. Wish I did, but I don't. I will assess, evaluate, and make a judgement decision at each phase of the work - and move forward.

so is that a decent crank then? couple of you guys said something about a series 9000 cast crank. I thought cast cranks were cheap and bad?

also: I forgot to mention something VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!

I've always had "weird" oil pressure issues on that motor. Most of the time the oil pressure was fine, but when braking and accelerating I noticed it dropped - as if the oil level was low in the pan - but it wasnt. Adding an extra quart helped a lot. Anyways guess what I found when I removed the pan............The pickup tube/screen from the oil pump was LAYING IN THERE!!!. It fell off. So, there were times when that motor had little or no oil pressure - not good. I was lucky that I didnt seize the motor or burn up bearings right?
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Old 12-24-2007, 08:58 AM
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Look at the Pics of my 454-What the Heck is it?

Lee you should be able to take the motor apart & clean it yourself,if there are no deep scratches on the crank journals,you can tell by running your fingernail over the journal,get new bearings and put it back together.If there are any scratches,they might come out with a polish,this is a fairly cheap job at a machine shop.Take the oil pump apart,if its gouged up,get a new one,have the pickup tack welded on,you were indeed lucky you didnt do serious damage.As for the parts in the motor,I dont think you have anything to worry about,just build it for a max rpm of 6-6500.I have read that those cast 9000 cranks are a very good piece.Have you decided on a cam yet ??
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