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lookin for another opinion.

11K views 67 replies 11 participants last post by  Hogg 
#1 ·
well getting ready to purchase parts whene tax refund gets here. i have a 305ci 230 hp rating engine. im going to replace crank and connecting rod bearings and bore the cylinders 30 thousanths of an inch. i would like some insight on the best parts combo to use for low end torque. im looking for a "off idle cruiser". low rpm kinda thing. its going to be for a 1989 short s-10 with auto trans and 3.08 rear end. i have some 1.84-1.50 434 casting heads and a matching holly street dominator intake manifold number 300-38. i also have origional cast iron marine intake without exhaust heat crossover as well. the cam is stock marine speced at 200 / 212 intake / exhaust duration @ 0.05" lift .4 / .41 intake / exhaust lift with 1.50:1 rockers
I will be purchasing new lifters and installing camshaft bearings as well. i have a useable pair of 350 vortec 1.94-1.50 heads but i would need to purchase a matching intake manifold(not completely opposed). either set of heads will get a freshen up at the machine shop and a smoothing of the casting marks on the intake side ports and little backyard porting on the exhaust side. if i could get some knowledge on making what i have the best combo for down low cruiser engine with a great sound. also i will be using a summit hei distributor, short headers and rochester carb tuned as lean as i can get without burnin up the pistons. i only know enough to get myself in trouble so...make sure im puttin this together the right way the first time. thanx
 
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#3 ·
305 build

Ok...was reading your post and thought scrap those heads and use the Vortecs...but then I read Vinnie's post....so I reread your post. After a little more thought, based on your cam selection and carb choice, I think Vinnie's right, just build it back to ite stock form and it'll probably last forever. Guess I get a little rowdy over those s-10/s-15 builds Vinnie...its a personal thing to try and make them all scream.:D
 
#4 ·
305 Vs 302?

Ok...was reading your post and thought scrap those heads and use the Vortecs...but then I read Vinnie's post....so I reread your post. After a little more thought, based on your cam selection and carb choice, I think Vinnie's right, just build it back to ite stock form and it'll probably last forever. Guess I get a little rowdy over those s-10/s-15 builds Vinnie...its a personal thing to try and make them all scream.:D
I love those little trucks,but for power I prefer to use bore sizes over 4 inch to take advantage of good heads. 4.155 is even better.
I look at a 305 as a stroker 265. believe me snakebit,I too like the bigger power engines.
 
#5 ·
heads

Vinnie, you offer solid advice on every type of build...I still seem to leap towards the Tim Taylor approach of "more power" on everything. My wife says I have an addiction and there isn't a rehab for it. She suggested that they take people like us and lock us in our own city where the only cars to drive is a PRIUS. I told her that would be fine...Vinnie and I would find a way to make it run 10's. :thumbup:
 
#6 ·
hybrid boost

Vinnie, you offer solid advice on every type of build...I still seem to leap towards the Tim Taylor approach of "more power" on everything. My wife says I have an addiction and there isn't a rehab for it. She suggested that they take people like us and lock us in our own city where the only cars to drive is a PRIUS. I told her that would be fine...Vinnie and I would find a way to make it run 10's. :thumbup:
the new porsche hybrid gets my vote for battery power helping performance more than mileage. An extra 90 plus horse power out of a corner is a good thing. also I think we could stuff another prius power plant where the back seat doesnt need to be?

Tim stole a lot of my ideas on his tool time
 
#8 ·
well gentlemen, i have to clarify that im not opposed to more power , im saving up parts for a 355 build up. naturally aspirated pump gas. leave not a single horse power hidden. blueprint full roller 355. till then the 305 makes good sound and good mileage on the cheap. i had a 1994 z-71 that i put a same year rebuilt 305 .030 overbore with a "R/V" cam (whatever that means), and it went 100,000 miles before i sold it. it got phenomenal highway gas mileage and it towed my boat around no problem. i could leave rubber anywhere i needed and never felt that a 350 would do much better. plus it sounded exceptionally mean with a single exhaust with a hollowed converter and dynomax muffler single in dual out. sounded nasty. i know it was throttle body fuel injected but if i could get that kind of low end and fuel mileage out of this s-10 i would be satisfied contently. the 355 will be for a 93 full size extend cab chevy. keep the opinions coming, should i use the holley intake or the marine cast iron with the crossover blocked?
 
#9 ·
also should i be worried about new lifters on old cam? should i ridge ream the cylinders and just install new rings instead of going .030 overbore?, the pistons are in great shape just an ever so slight ridge, its measureable, but you really cant feel it with your fingernail. should i look for heads from a 1994 throttle body injected engine and buy an intake to get the same results?
 
#10 ·
Opinions

I guess I would'nt put in new lifters on an old cam. I would use a ridge reamer and a cylinder hone to clean up the cylinders. New rings, new bearings. IF you are trying to do this on the cheap anyway. I would probably not go with the marine intake...personal preference I guess. Just clean it all up good. I've seen more engines go to ---- because guys didn't take the time to just clean things. Cover your lifters and bores...make sure to clear out all the gasket material. Pour a quart or two of oil through the block after reaming and honing the cylinders. It helps to wash away any metal shavings that may be hanging around. Clean hands when installing bearings...as dirt and grease aren't helpful in seating new bearings. Mostly common sense stuff that sometimes gets overlooked because we get in a hurry to hear it run. I have a 383 stroker in my s-15...so if I can be of any help to you just holler at me. Good luck.
 
#12 ·
i have looked at new engines like this one but thats a good bit of money. i hope to get out cheaper than the cost of this engine since I will want to purchase high volume oil pump, roller tip rockers, intake manifold. I would also like to put the quench at .040 and ******* port the exhaust valves and knock off the casting marks on the intake side. if I were to do all this to that engine it would cost over 3000 bucks. right now with what i have, its looking like all together and ready for a carb about $900 dollars. but realistically that new engine would suit my needs just fine and run a long time with a warrantee. hard to pass up the idea, I dont want to send this perfectly good engine to the bone yard, plus the savings. what would the estimated horsepower of the crate vortec 5.0 be? and at what rpm? ive thought long and hard about the crate 305 but a 355 is not much more money lol. thats why i keep wanting to restore this good old motor i have here.
 
#14 ·
opinion

Look, honestly, an overhaul kit with rings, bearings, gaskets and such for your 305...a Summit re-ring kit...runs $86.80. Thats pretty darn inexpensive compared to rebuilding it or buying a new engine. Its the direction I'd go if I was planning on eventually replacing the engine with a more modified small block in the future.
 
#15 ·
Look, honestly, an overhaul kit with rings, bearings, gaskets and such for your 305...a Summit re-ring kit...runs $86.80. Thats pretty darn inexpensive compared to rebuilding it or buying a new engine. Its the direction I'd go if I was planning on eventually replacing the engine with a more modified small block in the future.
thank you. thats the way i am leaning and that is my goal exactly. so now in that case, what would be a great cam choice because summit cam and lifter kits are only 100 bucks. might just as well grab a cam. so anybody who understands the concept of cam design, please give me some cam specs to look for that will give me explosive low end and mileage.
 
#16 ·
If you just need a good running engine for now don't bother doing a damn tihng to the one you have. run it till it breaks then go on craigslist and find any other sbc (305, 307, 283, 350, it DOESNT MATTER) for a couple hundred bucks, and run that one till it pops. By then you should have enough saved up to build what you really want.
 
#19 ·
If you just want something "cool" then get a high stall, a lumpy cam, cheap headers and dual exhaust with Thrush welded mufflers. That'll get you the hotrod sound that so many people think is cool- it may not have the most power but it'll have that cool look and sound.
 
#18 ·
cam

For stock purpose...summit kit with lifters k1103 or k1104. Both provide decent low end torque. Power band runs from 2,000 to 5,000 RPMs of course there are more radical cams, but you'll sacrifice low end power just so you can turn some higher RPMs. Thats just my thought and opinion. Kit with lifters and cam are $100.00...cant go wrong.
 
#21 ·
Eh, its nothing new, most "500hp hotrods" at car shows can't run as fast as a stock V6 mustang, BUT they have the look and the sound, and for many that's all they want- I'm not here to tell them they're wrong as its their money and they can decide how to spend it.

There are also many crazy fast stock sounding cars out there that don't have the look or sound and many people don't see the point in that either.
 
#22 · (Edited)
you say to put tons of money at it whene i say no you call me a poser? i didnt say i want to beat a mustang with a 305. i want to go at 1400 rpm's 60 mph. and you think im a poser? well take your money to a forum that specializes in top fuel racing. because you are posting against the art of hotrodding on a hotrodders forum. anybody who wants to help me out with a parts list that is cheap and does what i want is free to post and i thank you for being a poser with me. by the way, if you cant help me take a 305 and do what i want with it then why do you post on a forum if you dont know jack? ok so you know the high dollar stuff? well then answer a question for somebody who wants to spend 7 grand on the engine alone just to go in a straight line for ten seconds. get over your selves so i might get some insight from knowledgeable hotrodders.
 
#23 ·
s-10again!
when you build a full race solid roller 355 you wont find many better than Gary1.He has experience with $40,000 plus engines.
true a 305 can perform fair,the biggest problem is the big crutch of a very small bore.Thats why fbird says to use a blower on them.A 305 compared to a 302 would get destroyed in a horse power comparison,because of that a lot of users/members do not put a lot of effort into making horse power with a 305. If you really want to put a little money in a 305 and want a lumpy idle,then use a low lift,tight lsa cam with a 102 icl and vortec heads.
look at tight circle track cams that use restricted valve lift cams
 
#26 ·
Vortec heads aren't needed for the sound, they will help flow somewhat and they have no exhaust crossover but they'll also reduce compression- they're not a perfect head for every street car. And the 305 Vortec heads will keep the compression up but they need some bowl work- again no free lunch.

Why 102 ICL? Of all of the cam specs they're are that one seem really random and arbitrary give no other information- that being said one of my favorite cams for a near stock engine does have a 102 ICL, 274h06, which is reboxed and sold by about 5 companies (Summit, Elgin, Comp, Howards, and maybe Melling?) is a pretty mild cam with a nice sound and can run on a cheap set of "z28" springs.
 
#24 ·
thanx vinnie. very much appreciated good insight. im all for learnin. I know these gentlemen are on a whole different knowledge level than I. so maybe give me some lessens. I learn from the why part of things. tell me why it is that way and ill make better judgements with that information. "posing", haha, was something less ambitious junior high kids did whene i was 16 years old...twelve years ago.
 
#28 ·
Try to not take it personal; the guys that build race winning engines tend to be busy guys (for obvious reasons) and have their way of doing things.

I spend 9/10s of my day working as an interface between Engineers, Gear Designers etc and the public, which can be concours restoration guys all the way to a retired gator wrangler looking to build a 2 speed dirt track gearbox will 11-cents in his pocket.

Theres always more wrong ways than right ways, but often there are several acceptable ways to get the job done. The short answer is to leave your 5L alone and build the balls-out 355 as a 383.

Im an ol farmboy and can understand the 'git r done' situation, I say use the 300-38 and whatever camshaft is almost at the top of the page.
As far as heads, truthfully it doesnt matter if youre serious about just driving this thing. Whatever works for your 305 is going to be almost assuredly dead wrong for your manly motor. Throw a set of 2 chamber welded mufflers on it and rattle your fillings loose :D
Keep us posted though, a lot of young guys are building 305s these days, so a good well written write-up here at HR.com would be greatly appreciated
 
#29 ·
thank you guys. this is how people learn. i like this last post. gives me a little something to sink my teeth into. and i do not take it personally. i am a professional fisherman and i as well, dont care to hear other peoples fish stories because they suck compared to mine. i understand where the guys are coming from but i sure aint no damn poser, maybe a wannabee but everyone is a wannabee before they ARE.
 
#31 ·
let me chime my two cents in here s10again as i have built a few v8 s10s if your looking for a mean sounding quick truck thatll give several factory performance cars a run for their money keep the motor you got save your cash and turn that planned 355 into a 383 look around for deals on parts ebay is a good tool if you know what yor looking for just be careful its easy to get screwed do your research and find out what parts compliment each other if you want power down low build the whole engine that way. short wb s10s are a blast with a healthy v8 especially if you devote some of your budget to the suspension, but if you just want a truck with a nice rumble and a little grunt 305s can be built to an extent but your very limited because of bore size i dont even think your vortecs will work i believ youll have major valve clearance issues someone correct me if im wrong anyway i guess it all depends on how fast you want to go................happy rodding!!!
 
#32 ·
305

s-10again, listen...you aren't a poser...I think everyone has to start somewhere. None of us in here started out by building a top fuel engine. I started out the same way you are, albeit, I didn't get any advice from a forum. The first cam I installed was way to big for my set up that it performed like crap. I learned and changed it. It was also how I begin to understand how and why things work in an engine. My mistakes allowed me to become familiar with the workings of an engine. If this is your first go round inside and engine, then there are many of us who are willing to walk you through things and guide you in some of your choices. Hotrodding is an enthusiasm and love of the mechanical wonder of engines...at least for me. I dont care if you're building a 600 hp small block stroker or a stock 305. You are still building an engine. It doesn't matter how much money you have to throw at that engine, its still your dream to build it and take pride in it. So do your budget build on that 305, extract the advice and opinions from those you feel will be helpful, and enjoy it until your next project presents itself. :thumbup:
 
#34 ·
snake bit it all depends on how your gonna drive the truck if you wanna drag it and thats it ladder bars are the way to go move all the weight you can to the rear, battery(s) radiator etc and move the engine back as far as posslble and you will be surprised what these trucks can do even with modest horsepower if they can hook an are weighted right 9s and wheelies are not that far fetched now if your gonna do any cornering you have to go 4 link ladders will bind another way which is what i had on my current tuck are slide-a-links or brand name cal-tracs its like mixing leaf springs and a 4-link they even provide anti-squat adjustment and handle corners nicely plus they are easier to install and cheaper than a 4-link and hook beautifuly
 
#36 ·
opinion

Superdime, thanks, I use it for 1/4 mile now. Best time of 10.16 without the NOS...but no consistency due to tire spin. Have a line on a 12 bolt with ladder bar set up and strange axles. Ladder bars with it for $1000.00. Thought thats how I'd go. Just need to get the coilovers and the crossmember for it. Appreciate your thoughts on this...confirmed what I was leaning towards. Want to put her in the mid 9's with the bottle this summer.:mwink:
 
#47 ·
Superdime, thanks, I use it for 1/4 mile now. Best time of 10.16 without the NOS...but no consistency due to tire spin. Have a line on a 12 bolt with ladder bar set up and strange axles. Ladder bars with it for $1000.00. Thought thats how I'd go. Just need to get the coilovers and the crossmember for it. Appreciate your thoughts on this...confirmed what I was leaning towards. Want to put her in the mid 9's with the bottle this summer.:mwink:
Not sure where you get this mid 10 second thing :confused: But OK,,,lmao
I get why the cam guys build these thumper cams. A lot of people just want the sound and really dont care how fast it is. Is it my thing? No. But if it make's the car owner happy I'm all for it as It's supporting our hobby.

Just as you could care less of a S10 Truck and trash on it because he dont have Roll Bars.. They could careless for your 9.90 car. To them they're car is just as important to them as your OMG 990 car is to you. :rolleyes:

Do I really have to read to you??.Gezzzz!!!.


thank you those are my feelings exactly. anyway, i enjoy a lopey sounding idle but the efficiency of the engine is more important and i want to roll along with loads of power down low. low as you can go. ill trade all my horsepower at 4500 RPMs for a couple foot pounds of torque at 1300 RPMs. lockup torque converter, 700R4 trans with manual valve bodies, 3.08 gears or less even. i wanna bring the gas pedal off idle and have the truck start to roll right along. if it lands me 25 second quarter miles im happy with that. couple truck guys i know said i can make it sound good with certain bends in the exhaust. i am really struggling to understand how these cam numbers affect the operation of an engine. this engine will see long road trips and probably NEVER see 5000 RPMs...it definatly wont unless im stupidly and unnessecarily swingin my junk around. website descriptions of the cam dont really tell me too much. i really need to have a custom ground camshaft if i want to really hit the nail on the head with this 305 engine. Or to atleast understand how the numbers affect certain qualities of an engine to pick one close enough to save some money. what would be some good cam numbers for a custom grind for the operation i want? or better yet, help me understand cam design and I might be able to make my own judgements on how to set up my camming. i would rather learn how to fugure all this out than to be told which one to get.
You learning this stuff yourself....now ya talking!.:thumbup:

I don't think you need a custom grind cam.What with all the cam companies the 305 is certainly well covered.

Not to discourage your project 305,but the physics works like this.Torque is the measurement of work done,right??. What follows along with that is the torque curve and at what point is starts to work. What rpm range. Typicality smaller c.i. engines have a higher rpm range where the torque curve begins. That is the laws of physics. Can you fool that some??. Sure,to a degree. The 305's because of the bore size shrouds the intake valve badly too. Yet there are cams out there that certainly will help. My point here is as long as you are walking through that decision door with your expectations given the above...eyes wide open,go for it.

I too suggest before you do a cam choice,you plan out from the T/C to the rear wheel size for a final gear ratio. Given what you have been saying a 3.42 rear end gear which is conservative might be a good trade off gear. Help you alittle on the bottom and still be a decent cruise gear for those 300 mile trips you want to take to a car show.:D
 
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