Looks Like An Orange - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 07:00 AM
CADI70's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 25
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Looks Like An Orange

I just painted everything from the hood back on my car. I used Nason Acrylic Enamel, Nason medium reducer and Transtar classic catalyst. The paint came out severely orange peeled almost powder coat looking. It didnít flow well at all from the start. I tried to reduce the fan, get closer, turn up the airÖ. Nothing seemed to make it flow. Iím thinking the different brand reducer, even though it was for acrylic enamel is the culprit. Does this sound about right or could something else be going on? The good news is the body work looks good. It just sucks that I have rework the paint now.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 08:01 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,114
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,290
Thanked 1,138 Times in 1,008 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CADI70
I just painted everything from the hood back on my car. I used Nason Acrylic Enamel, Nason medium reducer and Transtar classic catalyst. The paint came out severely orange peeled almost powder coat looking. It didnít flow well at all from the start. I tried to reduce the fan, get closer, turn up the airÖ. Nothing seemed to make it flow. Iím thinking the different brand reducer, even though it was for acrylic enamel is the culprit. Does this sound about right or could something else be going on? The good news is the body work looks good. It just sucks that I have rework the paint now.
NEVER use a different brand hardener. FOLLOW THE TECH SHEETS for the least amount of troubles.

One of the most over used terms in painting is "letting it flow out". You want to spray it on as you want to see it, yes there is some "flow out" to some degree but you have an orange looking car because gun set up and spray technique.

Because you used a different brand hardener, who knows? It's anyones guess that the hardener caused it making it too thick or something because the product was made for something else. I don't know a think about Transtar but did a quick look for you and there are two "Classic" hardeners, one is part number 7038 for synthetic enamel while the other is 8078 and is for acrylic enamel like you were spraying. Did you use the wrong one?

See, when you go out of the tech sheets for the products you are using, you have to start thinking a lot more, learning a lot more, and trusting your knowledge a lot more. Follow the tech sheets and you don't have to do a thing but spray the stuff.

I have no idea if your mixing ratio was right or wrong, now with a different hardener, who knows.

Get a test panel, an old fender (you can pick one up at the local body shop they are thrilled to give them to you so they don't have to throw them away) and do some testing.

Here is a basic idea of setting the gun up and atomization. http://www.autobodystore.com/ms6.shtml

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 08:08 AM
boatbob2
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: north florida
Age: 76
Posts: 1,374
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts
Reducer ,not Catalyst...........

You sprayed your paint without enough reducer TOO DRY,,use a ZAHN cup,to get proper mix of paint and reducer.(paint supply place) (follow manufacturers recommendations) NEVER mix products from different manufacturers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 09:53 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,114
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,290
Thanked 1,138 Times in 1,008 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatbob2
You sprayed your paint without enough reducer TOO DRY,,use a ZAHN cup,to get proper mix of paint and reducer.(paint supply place) (follow manufacturers recommendations) NEVER mix products from different manufacturers.
Bob, he USED a different brand catalyst! He is talking about a different reducer but used Nason paint with transtar catalyst. That is what thru me off, I didn't catch that now he is talking going to a different reducer TOO.

If it's reduced by the manufacturers recommendation you don't need a ZAHN cup. But damn they are nice when you want to really get a hold of what you are doing. I used it in the lacquer days on every job. But these days, 4-2-1 and your done. (or what ever the mixing ratio on the tech sheet is).

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 10:22 AM
CADI70's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 25
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the link MARTINSR. Good info. I just came back from the paint store. The catalyst is correct according to them. Different brand but works and is cheaper. I was worried about its age as well. Iíve had it for over a year. Still they seemed unconcerned with it since itís still very much in liquid form. Also I brought my mixing cup and demonstrated how I mix. They said I was doing it correct. They seem to point me to gun setup. They basically told me to make sure to do a good practice run prior to mixing up too much paint. Also add reducer if necessary. Truth be told, I did this but couldnít get the gun to give me a good spray. It kept coming out like oversized pixels on a TV screen, big droplets that didnít run together well. Iíve had a conventional gravity feed for years. Itís an el-cheapo Lowes gun but itís given me some good paint jobs in the past. Would it be worth investing in an HVLP gun? If I try again with my current gun my plan is to clean the !@^* out of the gun and be liberal with the reducer. Another thing, I was using Medium reducer thatís good to 85deg. It shouldnít have been a problem but I bought the slower kind to hedge my bets. Iíll have to look into getting a ZAHN cup. I never check viscosity but maybe itís time to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 02:26 PM
boatbob2
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: north florida
Age: 76
Posts: 1,374
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts
Hi Brian.......

Hi,im not quite sure WHAT he was talking about,Reducer? catylst?or whatever,BUT,i ALSO dont listen to those paint store people,MOST ,have NO IDEA what theyre talking about.i dont mix products,i dont care about the cost,how much is a screwed up paint job worth??? I agree on the 4-2-1 mix,BUT,MAYBE his mix was off,thats why i recommended the zahn cup,years ago,i also used a zahn cup,for mixing lacquer,now,i mostly mix a little reducer,(after the correct amount of catylst)and watch the drops off of the stir stix,if,the drop falls with a tail,more reducer,but,i add the reducer slowly as soon as i get a drop with no tail,im good to go,I dont paint much anymore,but,ive painted many cars and airplanes in the past..AND,i honestly cant remember the last time i messed up a paint job...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 02:54 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,114
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,290
Thanked 1,138 Times in 1,008 Posts
I was wondering if the "Value line" paints would even have a recommended Viscosity cup spec on the tech sheets being they are so cut to the chase unlike the top of the line tech sheets that will be a few pages long. I checked out the Nason Tech sheet on line and sure enough, there it is.
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...on/fastdry.pdf

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 03:28 PM
CADI70's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 25
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Is this what I need?
http://www.amazon.com/Viscosity-Meas...sr=1-1-catcorr
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:37 AM
boatbob2
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: north florida
Age: 76
Posts: 1,374
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts
Zahn Cup,,,

Hi,yes,that is a ZAHN cup,basically the way I use it,mix your paint as recommended,by the tech sheet,no reducer.fill cup,time how long it takes the paint to empty the cup. (in seconds) write that time down,add a little reducer,time it,keep adding reducer (a LITTLE) at a time,when the time to empty the ZAHN cup,is the same (or very close) to the tech sheet,your finished. I forgot,if youre going to use a pint,quart or gallon,you MUST mix that amount with CATYLST (hardner) and add the reducer to the whole amount,your going to use.,i have seen guys add the reducer to the amount of paint in the cup,that does NOTHING. ALSO,if you go to your paint supplier,they MAY give you a zahn cup, IF you buy a lot of paint from them,,that one on FLEA BAY is overpriced. use the white plastic one,easier to clean.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I always get orange peel! I hate orange peel! shad9876 Body - Exterior 15 10-14-2008 08:45 AM
orange peel help pat63chevy Body - Exterior 6 11-18-2007 06:25 AM
Orange Paint wisch79 Body - Exterior 3 03-16-2006 07:48 PM
orange peel Rustyoldtruck Body - Exterior 8 07-15-2005 08:24 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.