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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2012, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg View Post
What is wrong with a Fram filter. I have used them with no problems. I have a GMC so I am back to AC Delco.
It's just a personal bad experience with them. I had built my S10 BBC and initially installed a Fram filter and VR1 racing oil for break in. After priming the system and reinstalling the distributor, startup & break in, I shut it off for the day and let it set overnight. Went out the next day, restarted and had zero oil pressure. Immediately shut it off, pulled the distributor and primed it again. All was good until the next time I went to start it up and again, zero oil pressure. I changed the filter and oil and put a Wix filter on it and the problem went away. So, if you ever run into the problem of zero oil pressure at startup, change the Fram filter. If I hadn't had a gauge, I may have not caught it in time and done serious damage. But then this is just my opinion on the Frams but you can google it and find other similar stories, some even worse.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg View Post
What is wrong with a Fram filter. I have used them with no problems. I have a GMC so I am back to AC Delco.
You need to do a cutaway comparison for yourself.

There are tons of comparison being done by people on you-tube ... but most of them are being filmed extremely biased and downright immature know-nothings! ( even some guy urinating on Fram and/or using them for target practice. *Real* convincing!)

Know what you're comparing ... the anatomy and compsition.
There was a guy saying that NAPA Silver and NAPA Gold were pretty much identical ... other than the "color of the valve" and the number of pleats (45 versus 54 in the samples he compared)

The "color" is significant. The red silicone valve remains flexible under the conditions (heat and exposure to motor oil and contaminants) that cause the black rubber valve to harden and eventually lead to filter bypass. This typically occurs in the range of 5,000 km (3,000 miles) whereas the silicone valve filters would extens this to 8,000 km (5,000 mi) +

# of pleats ... 54 is 20% more than 45.
There may be differences in the quality of the media as well.
paper vs synthetic media?

NAPA has recently released a "Platinum" filter that is designed to be used with synthetic oil AND extended drain intervals.

So ... spend $1.99 on a Fram if you like, but educate yourself to the advantages of premium brands.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2012, 11:32 AM
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Which Fram oil filter causes low oil pressure. I use HP-4 and never gave any problem. Been using HP-4 for over 20 years.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2012, 12:49 PM
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The Fram HP4 filters to 20 microns while the racing Wix/NAPA only goes to about 60 microns.
I have used the Fram HP filters in hundreds of engines, including every professional racing operation I have been associated with. I have no knowledge of their street filters and cant see why anyone would use them on a SBC when the racing filter is $10.

One thing I have run into on some regular parts store filters is the use of assembly lubes that are incompatible with the filter media which causes the filter media to swell and restrict flow. Volvo had a problem with customers using Slick50 with the OE filter and having engine failures result from the loss of pressure.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2012, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lg1969 View Post
Which Fram oil filter causes low oil pressure. I use HP-4 and never gave any problem. Been using HP-4 for over 20 years.

I also use the HP4. Its burst strength is rated at 300 psi. It incorporates a larger rubber oring too. Never an issue.

I do know they had a recall and a bad reputation some years back, I think that problem was resolved.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiehd View Post
I also use the HP4. Its burst strength is rated at 300 psi. It incorporates a larger rubber oring too. Never an issue.

I do know they had a recall and a bad reputation some years back, I think that problem was resolved.
It also hold a full one quart. Not like some other oil filters that hold a pint.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmsport View Post
... I have no knowledge of their street filters and cant see why anyone would use them on a SBC when the racing filter is $10.
...
I can't see why anyone would use a Racing filter on a street machine.

Wix Filters / Wix Motorsports / Racing Products

Quote:
We offer two very different and distinct racing filter lines. For maximum flow and horsepower the lowest restriction pure racing media filters are recommended – oil (T-10) and air (T-66). However, when endurance and better engine protection are needed, WIX’s high efficiency endurance media filters are the correct choice – oil (T-71) and air (T-88).

Racing filters are not intended for street use and often void new vehicle and equipment warranties. Installation on a street or highway driven vehicle may be a violation of state or federal law.
Different filters for different purpose and conditions. Micron ratings are WAY different.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 07:21 PM
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maybe i should just start another thread
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by helrazr3 View Post
maybe i should just start another thread
OK... sorry for the thread drift.

Looking at your lifters, it appears obvious that you have some premature wear. Those "bullseyes" are what you would expect to see on a high-mileage engine.

That being said ... is there enough wear there to cause the iron powder that you described earlier? I doubt it. Have another look at the pic that I posted earler. The damage was very obvious, and there was a fair amount of debris in the bottom of the pan. Luckily, I could find no evidence to suugest that it had been picked up by the pump, and the bearings were clean.

Take some pics of the cam lobes, down through the lifter bores.

As far as pre-lubing ... yes, I have learned just how vital that is!
A 1/4" cordless drill just doesn't cut it!
The notion of "it stalled the drill, so it will have pressure as soon as the engines fires" is a fallicy as well.

During "round 2", I used a 3/8" air drill on the correct oil pump primer tool. It was just barely up to the task with 125 PSI in the tank. I had to run that drill for SEVERAL minutes before I had oil coming out of all of the pushrods.

I squirted liberal amounts of Lucas Assembly Lube on the cam lobes, lifters, pushrods, rocker arms ... everywhere, with the 'trickle down' thought in mind.


I also used a full bottle of Comp Cams #159 Break-in Additive. The results, as near as I can tell, were sucessful this time.

My plan, going forward, is to continue using a couple ounces of this additive with every oil change, in order to "bolster" the ZDDP content.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 05:40 PM
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thats ok about the drift, i should be up to pull the heads sunday or monday so i will have a clearer picture. its really a conflict of emotions i want to tear it all down to see what happened but at the same time i was really bummed out and po'ed that after all that work time and money here i am ripping it all apart again when this is the time i am supposed to be finally out driving it
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 05:48 PM
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You are not alone. I had to pull my 406 three time because of oil pressure problem. That was no fun for me either. Turn out to be a bad distributor.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 07:49 PM
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FYI only...I used to work at an outfit that sold distributors. They had a run of GM distributors that were sent out with undersized journals "at the base of the housing". The two journals should be tight enough to seal the oil galleries in the block but still drop in and turn.

If they are undersized the oil leaks past the journals resulting in reduced oil pressure throughout the entire gallery. In some cases the pressure was so low that the customer lost bearings.

I mention this in case you installed a different distributor OR polished the heck out of the journals. Some guys think polishing the distributor is a good thing...which it isn't.

Sorry can't remember the "go/no go" journal diameter.

Ed
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