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Old 02-03-2003, 11:30 AM
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Post Lots of Q's: First Tri Coat Paint Job/Painting Bike/Plastic

I have done a bunch of search on this site and really haven't found all the answers that I am looking for. So here goes. Any help would be great. I am going to be painting a 2001 CBR 929RR. Right now I am just painting the tail. Here is a pic of the bike (not mine but just to give you an idea.)


Again right now I am just painting the tail the stock red (Honda's Winning Red) This is a tri coat system that I just picked up. I am using a ATD-6860 1.4mm HVLP(I will use this gun for all coats) with Dupont Chromabase and Dupont 4700S Chromaclear. I used the Dupont primer surfacer and blocked it out. It looks real nice and is ready for paint. So here are the questions. First, does anyone have any tips on doing a tri coat paint job? What about prepartation? Next any tips on if I get a run? The mid coat, as I am told, will actually make the paint appear darker as you put more coats on. Any tips on how to get a good match? Lastly any tips on wet sanding and polishing out the clear?

Just looking for some tips and tricks before I get started so please fire away. Thanks again for all the help. You guys have always been good with advice. <img src="graemlins/evil.gif" border="0" alt="[evil]" />

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Old 02-03-2003, 11:37 AM
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Here is the link for the pic. Sorry about that.

http://www.level66.com/viewer-4732.html
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:25 PM
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Tri coat is one of those paint jobs that are "if you can do this you can do anything" paint jobs. Just lay the base on give it a 5-8 minute flash time lay the second coat on. When doing the second or middle coat you'll have to be very observant and overlap your spray pattern to make a uniform coat. after the first aplication do a second to help it blend better. You will not get each peaice to match if its done at different times. Mix and spray it all at once to have a uniform color. After the middle step shoot the clear. and let it cure. If at any time you exsperience a run the edge of a peice of tape will take care of it. Just dabb it on and off with the run. As for buffing use 3M's finishing and polishing compound with a black waffle buff pad, then the polishing compound with a wool pad, your done youre ready to ride.

HK
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:30 PM
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Halloweenking you made me nervous with that "if you can do this you can do anything" comment. But you know what? There is only one way to learn right? If I screw it up I will take it as a lesson learned and try it again. Even though this stuff ain't cheap. Then again if I wanted cheap I could of taken up bowling. Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-03-2003, 01:16 PM
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I have ued the Dupont Chromabase and Chromaclear in the past but have not heard it referred to as a tricoat system. I used a catalyst activated primer. After final sanding and prep, I spray the value shade recomended for the Chromabase and let flash about 15 min before applying the Chromabase and clear as HK described. I am very careful about trying to get too much clear on at one time. I do use 3 coats of clear to give me a little more material in case there is a need for a little extra buffing. If you do get a sag or run, it is not too dificult to repair. Also, Painting a bike in pieces can give you the opportunity to rotate your piece if you have a way of securing it and this done for about 5 min after the final coat will prevent sags.

There is another thread describing ways to fix small runs and sags, so I won't repeat these.

Trees
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Old 02-03-2003, 01:45 PM
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2fast, If you follow my steps and pay attention you should do fine. I forgot to mention above that between steps two and three you MUST clean your spray gun before the third step. Just rinse out the can and spray some thinner/reducer through it, do this step twice then go on to lay the final coat of clear on. Let us know how it turns out.

Trees, A Tricoat system is just the term used on factory color cards to describe a paint application that inclueds pearl. First coat is base, second is the pearl/clear and third is of course the clearcoat/topcoat.

HK
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Old 02-03-2003, 05:00 PM
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When painting tricoat paint the first color is just like painting any other basecoat. the second coat is mostly clear with a little color in it so it covers very little what I do when painting a tri coat is spray a sprayout card they are available from a jobber tape one to a paint stick apply base then second color for the clear buy a spray bomb of clear then hold it up to another piece of the bike while clear is wet and shiney.see how it matches apply the second color more or less to adjust color.I would use fast reducer on bike parts.
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Old 02-04-2003, 03:03 AM
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Thanks, HK! Never to old to learn!!

Trees
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Old 02-04-2003, 03:06 AM
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Trees, HK, and Collins, thanks for the tips. I need to pick up some prep cleaner, gun cleaner, and I am ready to go. It's all about preparation.

Collins, good call on the rotation thing. I would of never of thought of it. I will definitely check out the fixing sags/runs section.

When I get done I will definitely post some pics. You guys rock. Thanks again.
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Old 03-03-2003, 04:46 AM
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I am hoping all of you subscribed to this post. I was looking for a bit more advice. I bought all of my material. I am getting a couple pieces of sheet metal to do my let down board to match up the color. As I was buying my gun cleaner and 3901 cleaner I was talking shop with one of the guys and he mentioned that I don't use a primer surfacer/epoxy primer at all and if I did to sand it off. That instead I wet sand it to perfection using a guide coat, apply a adhesion promoter, then base coat, mid coat, one coat of clear, put on my graphics (oh yah I am putting in graphics) and then two more coats of clear. Any thoughts?

It's a bit cold out here in Buffalo but I am dieing to get this thing painted. I really can't wait to start laying down material. But I want to do it right the first time. Thanks again.
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Old 03-24-2003, 11:28 PM
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2fast:

I spray a couple of crotch rockets a month. Up until last year I ran a Triumph Daytona with the local street squids. I put my own bikes down enough times to figure out real quick that repairing and fixing your own after insurance pays out is a way to make tire money.

I always just sand the stock paint down with 600 grit to get some bite. I repair any gouges/scratches (there are usually MANY on my bikes) with some finishing-putty, block the whole area that I puttied out smooth, then spray 2 coats of epoxy primer/sealer over the entire peice. I then scuff the sealer (I know the paint shops will tell you not to, but I've found that spraying in the cold, or high-humidity, sometimes your basecoat wont bite super-well to the primer. The 800 is just a secondary, mechanical-bite for the basecoat.

Then I blow the whole thing off with the air chuck, wipe it down with some pre-cleano (grease/was remover), tack-wrag it twice and spray my basecoat in light-to-medium coats.

I can't remember on the 954's whether the tail is a one-peice, two peice, or one of those damn ones that has the little filler-panel over the rear light. Anyways, when youre spraying your tri-coat (I'm gonna call it a Kandy from here on out...), you HAVE to bolt all the peices together and hang them from the ceiling as one peice. You can spray your base coat (first coat) with the peices seperate, but, trust me...BOLT UP everything and hang it from the ceiling in a fashion that you can get to all the sides as one peice. If your tail section has some adjustability in the gaps, leave them WIDE so the tri-coat sprays down in the gaps a bit.

Matching the red on the front of the bike isn't that big of a deal...cause they're over 2 feet apart. Only the most anal-retentive will be looking to see if the red matches the front EXACTLY (get it close...but don't spend 2 days trying to match it). BUT...any fool will be able to see that the red on one peice doesnt' match the red on another peice where they butt-up. Paint them together.

When I spray my kandy coat (the second coat), I usually go pretty light on my first two coats, and I overlap my passes by quite a bit (up to 80%). Run a pass all the way down one panel. If youre on the brake side of the bike, start at the back of the peice, near the tail light, with the gun spraying DOWN, on top of the plastic where the passenger seat rests (there are some small 90-degree angles in the plastic up there), make a pass all the way from the back, to the front of the area, VERY LIGHT. Then move down 20 or 25% of your spray pattern height and make another pass, keeping the gun perpendicular and between 6 and 8 inches from the peice. Very light coats! Move down and make another pass. Then go to the other side and do the same, then do the tail-light area. Blend the taillight area that doesn't have any overspray from the side-passes to match the overspray from the side-passes first. Then put on a light coat or two. Put the same thickness on your test board. Let all that flash, then come back and do it again.

Most manufacturers call for 4 to 6 coats of a kandy for color-correct coverage. Just use your test stick to match the color to the front end. Look at the test strip and the color your trying to match in FULL SUNLIGHT. Don't do it in your shop under the halogens. You'll get allot closer to matching.

The idea is to make sure your not putting dark 'streaks' by putting more kandy-coat in one pass then the one beside it. Blending is everything. You need a gun with EXCELLENT atomization, NO spitting, and CLEAN!

After you get the kandy coat where you want it, let it flash for twice as long as you think it should take (I wait 3 hours). DONT pre-cleano it, don't wipe it with a paper towel, DONT look at it wrong. You CANNOT fix this if something scratches or mars it, or if something gets in it. You are 80% done.

If your using Douponts Chromabase Clear, spray your first coat at 50% higher pressure than the can calls for, keep your gun back at 18" and "Fog" the first coat. Wait 10 min. Your second coat, turn your gun down to 25% higher than the can calls for, and hold your gun at 10-12" and give it a more deliberate, but not "heavy" coat. Wait 15 min. Your third coat and all but your last coat, run the gun at the recommended pressure and spray at 8-10" with normal coats. The idea is to NOT put a run in the first two coats. If you run it after that, who cares, sand and buff are easier than screwing up a tri-coat by trying to pull a run off with tape or a paper towel. Doupont's Chroma base is a pretty high-solids base. It's thick and I have had problems with it wanting to orange-peel pretty easily. So I over-reduce my last coat of clear by 5% and spray it carefully as to not put any more runs in the peice that aren't already there. Like I said..if you get runs, don't cuss or try to load them up so they'll "run-out". Just let them set up and keep spraying. You can fix anything with sandpaper and a buffer.

I let Chromabase set without a heat lamp for 8 hours or with a heat lamp for 4. Then I block out my runs with 800, sand out any orange peel with 1000, then blend the areas that I sanded out with 1200. Then I use the 3M Perfect-It II system with black and yellow foam pads (use a clean yellow pad for the final polish), then use the Hand-polish at the end.

Like I said, I ran my Daytona for 3 years, laying it down and letting other goons lay it down a couple times a summer. I ran it with House of Kolor Kandy Cobalt Blue over Orion Silver. I got GOOD at matching that color. Anyways, this is just advice from someone you'll probably never meet. There are hundreds of ways to spray paint. Figure out what works for you.

The 'hopper
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Old 03-25-2003, 03:48 AM
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Hopper, thanks for all the great instructions. You are right there are a lot of ways to paint depending on what's going on for that job but I can tell you I will be printing out this post and using it for a later reference. Thanks to you and everyone else's expertise.

Well the bad news is that you are a bit late. The 929 is a whole piece but I have an undertail and I didn't paint them together and it came out a shade darker than the undertail. So now I have to redo it. Not a big ordeal but I learned the hard way. I will remember that one next time I am laying down kandy. Anyways. The other issue I ran into, which you touched on, was the clear orange peeled on me pretty bad. Not a big ordeal since I have to redo it but none the less. A lot of lessons learned on that one. I have some pics that I am going to post soon of the kandy'd and of the new paint, which won't be a tri coat. Going black. I figure I really want to ride and I need to get this done. Thanks for help hopper and if you have any thoughts on keeping the orange peel to a minimum I would appreciate it. Thanks again to everyone.
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