LS engine versus SBC throw down, who has the best torque below 3000, HP to HP - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
GHL! Listen

Nascar has a bore limit of 4.185 inches,,,,
thats what the engines are bored to.
show me an example of a different combination?
I will keep trying to help you,quit resisting help,,,,
ok you win.. they all bore to 4.185 on every engine..
you win..

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 01:17 AM
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Those baby cams you refer too are similar to a GM hot cam. Although the lift of the LS cams are waaaay higher.

You want to take a stab at finding a 383 SBC with that cam that under performs the LS3?

Its not pretty.

I won't torture you AP, I like the LS engines as much as anyone else.

The fact is, the open chamber of the LS engine family was designed for emissions and efficiency. The SBC has a lot of quench in the closed chamber, which boosts torque...also poor at emissions and efficiency.

The LS engine torque peaks are at higher rpms than a comparable HP SBC...because of the open chamber...that is simply fact.

As for the cost factor I have yet to find a decent deal up here on any LS engine that didn't need a complete overhaul, the heads don't last any longer and any late model FI 350 has similar bore wear at the same mileage...fuel injection is what reduces bore wear...not design.

Not to mention good luck finding a used LS3 motor for the same price as a rebuilt crate SBC with AFR heads and stroked...that argument is simply not true.

Used LS3 Engine | eBay

383 Chevy Engine | eBay

Where are you finding LS3 engines for cheap, I wanna buy one!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 07:23 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck View Post
Those baby cams you refer too are similar to a GM hot cam. Although the lift of the LS cams are waaaay higher.

You want to take a stab at finding a 383 SBC with that cam that under performs the LS3?

Its not pretty.

I won't torture you AP, I like the LS engines as much as anyone else.

The fact is, the open chamber of the LS engine family was designed for emissions and efficiency. The SBC has a lot of quench in the closed chamber, which boosts torque...also poor at emissions and efficiency.

The LS engine torque peaks are at higher rpms than a comparable HP SBC...because of the open chamber...that is simply fact.

As for the cost factor I have yet to find a decent deal up here on any LS engine that didn't need a complete overhaul, the heads don't last any longer and any late model FI 350 has similar bore wear at the same mileage...fuel injection is what reduces bore wear...not design.

Not to mention good luck finding a used LS3 motor for the same price as a rebuilt crate SBC with AFR heads and stroked...that argument is simply not true.

Used LS3 Engine | eBay

383 Chevy Engine | eBay

Where are you finding LS3 engines for cheap, I wanna buy one!

You just need to shop around, a new LS3 is right at 6K, I've seen used in the 1k-3k range depending on mileage. Also, I use that example only because you used a 383- if it were my build I'd just go with a cheap 5.3L truck engine- $500 bucks ll day long, less if you wait for a deal.

If we compare a 5.3L to a 327 or a 350 the power per dollar is MUCH better.

As for wear and head design, I don't think you understand what is different on the LS series so I'm not going to go down that road- one point I cannot stress enough though is that the head flow is NOT the biggest change. Everyone on this forum is obsessed with head flow but there's a hell of a lot more different in the LS engine than the valve angle and flow numbers.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:00 AM
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Ok, so we will switch gears to the LS 5.3L.

Probably a better match since its intended purpose was as a truck engine.

Find me a 550HP LS 5.3L for comparison to this 327 build, for arguments sake we will restrict the lower rpm limit to 4000 since these are higher revving engines.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te.../viewall.html/
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:49 AM
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good boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
ok you win.. they all bore to 4.185 on every engine..
you win..
I dont mind debating with you anytime. I know you have ideas and are willing to share them.We can learn from each other...
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 10:42 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck View Post
Ok, so we will switch gears to the LS 5.3L.

Probably a better match since its intended purpose was as a truck engine.

Find me a 550HP LS 5.3L for comparison to this 327 build, for arguments sake we will restrict the lower rpm limit to 4000 since these are higher revving engines.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te.../viewall.html/
link doesn't work for me for some reason.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 11:02 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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327 Small Block Chevy Engine Build - Chevy High Performance Magazine All Pages

that link worked, I presume its the same article.

as for a comparable build, I don't think anyone has ever put 10K in a NA 5.3L- a lot of guys have put 2K into a turbo 5.3L to make 700+hp though.

No one would attempt a build like that on a 5.3L as its pretty pointless.

I'm not really impressed by the power on that build either to be honest- 10K could have been much better spent.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 02:01 PM
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glanced at the 327 article.10k is standard price to pay for a well built engine with new parts.I have 10 into my engine.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 02:07 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
glanced at the 327 article.10k is standard price to pay for a well built engine with new parts.I have 10 into my engine.
what does building a $10K 327 get you that can't be had for half the money? More stickers to put on your rear bumper?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 02:19 PM
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AP72: you price out the parts and we can start splitting hairs on your mistakes.You play the devils advocate well;
now its your turn.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 02:37 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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$500 used 5.3L
$700 for a cam and springs
$100 for pipe and flanges
$300 for injectors
$400 for complete MS system or you can use a stock ECU- your choice
$500 ebay turbo

$2500 total for 700hp+ on pump gas. Hell throw in a fuel pump for another $150 if you want. Those are high estimates btw, and everything is new except the original engine.

If you want to keep the same recipe you can also do the same with an LT1 or TPI engine, just expect to drop off about 100hp.

Its not new, its not shiny, but it makes more power, uses less fuel, and is more durable. You can spend your money on new and shiney and build a high end turbo LS(whatever) for 10K as well and maybe get yourself another 2-300hp, but how in the hell are you going to keep it on the street?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 02:51 PM
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Thats a grenader engine you cant let the "dumb-butt" guy down the road drive.The ls-5.3 will make more power than the sbc with stock GM heads.
the plumbing will be similar(not free!or $100.00)
dont need the $300.00 injectors and a used 350=$50.00
buy a fat roller cam
take that $750.00 you saved and buy assault chinesium heads that out flow 5.3 heads
winner SBC
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 03:34 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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You'll need injectors even on a 350, and good luck finding a good running one for 50 bucks. The cam cost is the same, and I agree the assault heads give you a better starting point than any oem head. I assumed with the 100 bucks that you can use a wire welder. With the assault heads the sbc will fair a lot better, still has worse oiling, cooling, pistons, cam core, rockers, etc etc but at least it'll get closer to a 5.3l, and you're only looking at the extra cost of a set of heads.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
Thats a grenader engine you cant let the "dumb-butt" guy down the road drive.The ls-5.3 will make more power than the sbc with stock GM heads.
the plumbing will be similar(not free!or $100.00)
dont need the $300.00 injectors and a used 350=$50.00
buy a fat roller cam
take that $750.00 you saved and buy assault chinesium heads that out flow 5.3 heads
winner SBC


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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2014, 03:45 PM
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I dont need injectors for a blow through carb.lots of used Holley cores for $25.00 and a cheap kit for a 3310,home port the carb and you have a 1000 CFM fuel mixer,maybe buy a chrome fuel line for bling.
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