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-   -   M22 with Olds 403 (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/m22-olds-403-a-227003.html)

camaroadam73 12-09-2012 05:03 PM

M22 with Olds 403
 
I've got a 73 Camaro with a muncie M22 and im wondering if there's a cheaper alternative to dropping in my olds 403, so far all the bellhousings i can find are 500$ + still would need a new clutch.

vinniekq2 12-09-2012 09:22 PM

what exactly is your question? why are you talking about a 403?

cobalt327 12-09-2012 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaroadam73 (Post 1620991)
I've got a 73 Camaro with a muncie M22 and im wondering if there's a cheaper alternative to dropping in my olds 403, so far all the bellhousings i can find are 500$ + still would need a new clutch.

You can buy a used Pontiac bellhousing that will bolt right up to the Olds engine/M22 trans. You couldn't spend $500 on one of those if you tried.

The Muncie M22- if that's for sure what it is- needs a low rear gear to not slip the clutch a lot on take off (=/> 3.73 or so). They're not my first choice for most street machines. They were brought on line for strength and to keep a peaky engine on the cam, not for everyday driving. Just be sure that's what you have and do not go by the RPO code of the vehicle it came from. It might be best to take the cover off and verify exactly what it is you have; a lot of gears have been changed in a lot of transmissions since these were new....

joe_padavano 12-10-2012 04:42 AM

Stock BOP bellhousings can be bought for under $50 if you look for them (yes some folks ask a lot more). I assume you know to use the Olds motor mount brackets from a 403 Trans Am.

camaroadam73 12-10-2012 07:24 AM

I'm pretty sure it's an M22, it's noisy and allot of fun to drive lol. I read somewhere people used to beef up M21 with M22 internals? As for the rear gears i'm not sure but i know it was geared for launch, 3.73s are what i had in mind. The cars a daily driver for the summer, what makes it so bad for a daily? J/w

I checked ebay looking for the right parts and turned up allot, thanks. Joe, yeah I've got a set of 79' trans am brackets, and allot of other parts for one of those but i don't think any of it will bolt to this camaro except the mounts.

cobalt327 12-10-2012 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaroadam73 (Post 1621183)
I'm pretty sure it's an M22, it's noisy and allot of fun to drive lol. I read somewhere people used to beef up M21 with M22 internals? As for the rear gears i'm not sure but i know it was geared for launch, 3.73s are what i had in mind. The cars a daily driver for the summer, what makes it so bad for a daily? J/w

I checked ebay looking for the right parts and turned up allot, thanks. Joe, yeah I've got a set of 79' trans am brackets, and allot of other parts for one of those but i don't think any of it will bolt to this camaro except the mounts.

It's not all that bad, but the ratios are intended to keep a narrow powerband engine on the cam, not necessarily to use w/a broad powerband like the Muncie M20, for instance. It's noisy as you know. But as long as you have a steep enough rear gear there's no other reasons not to use it.

I remember driving my b-i-l's '68 Corvette w/427/M22. It was a chore to drive in traffic, the clutch had to be slipped a lot every time I took off from a stop. Once I was rolling it was OK. It would not have been a good set up for drag racing- the clutch was to hard to modulate between bogging and spinning. Hopefully YMMV.

Auto Gear will hopefully see this and fill you in on what can be done w/the transmission.

vinniekq2 12-10-2012 06:58 PM

Its tough to launch a street car with a 2.20 first gear ratio and stock gears.It works fine in a corvette that was intended to road race.
I upgraded to a 2.78 first gear for my car with a 3.50 rear gear,coupled to a higher rpm engine it still is a bit of a pain in traffic.If you launch at anything over 1200 rpm the tires spin,,,,
a 5 speed should fix your problem

AutoGear 12-11-2012 06:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Sadly; most M22's that are noisy, are usually M20 or 21s with either poor quality aftermarket gears, used parts, a worn out case or all of the above. If you want to keep your 4 speed (as as long as the case doesn't look trashed upon close inspection theres no reason not to); I would build an M20 if its a M20 or 21 platform. If it really is an M22; I'd clean it up, sell it and start from scratch with an aftermarket M22 wide ratio gearset, with either 3.73s or 3.55s in the rear.

you can put your trans in 1st gear, turn the input 10 times, count the number of times the output turns. If it turns 25 times, its an M20 (2.52 1st gear). If it turns 22 times, its an M21 or M22 (2.20 1st). If its an M21 or M22, you'll have to remove the sidecover and look at the helix angle of the gears to decipher what you have.

joshp83 12-15-2012 01:50 PM

olds engines need the crank pilot drilled if they didnt come with a standard trans to my knowledge there never was a standard transmission option with a 403

cobalt327 12-15-2012 04:03 PM

See p/n's 450, 455 and 460- Mondello tranny pilots

The better way to do the input pilot is to use the BBC bearing, as shown. But the other two can be used w/minimal machine work. Like they say, "down & dirty". But to do it 'right' requires the crank to be removed or at least the engine.

More- Pilot bearings and bushings

AutoGear 01-21-2013 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoGear (Post 1621540)
you can put your trans in 1st gear, turn the input 10 times, count the number of times the output turns. If it turns 25 times, its an M20 (2.52 1st gear). If it turns 22 times, its an M21 or M22 (2.20 1st). If its an M21 or M22, you'll have to remove the sidecover and look at the helix angle of the gears to decipher what you have.

This needs to be corrected to
"Turn the OUTPUT 10 times and count how many times the INPUT turns. 22 times around on the INPUT would signify an M21 or M22 and 25 times would mean its an M20 or aftermarket ratio M22W."

Thanks to Cobalt327 for catching my error. I meant to correct this awhile ago, but haven't been online much.

~Nathan


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