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Maaco vs. At-Home Paint Job

222K views 127 replies 46 participants last post by  Jimbo17 
#1 ·
I've been stumped at the decision on what to do about my 1992 Ranger.The paint is faded and I'd really like it to shine better.More or less,it's heavily oxidated.After you wax it out,it'll look good for awhile,then it'll go back to the same state.Of course,this is a "hand-wax job" so to speak.I haven't used a buffer or consulted with a detail shop about a professional buffer job.I will probably spend my money on that first before I decide on what to do about a paint job.

Now,here's the thing..If it does come down to a paint job,should I do it myself or take it to Maaco?If I get a better paint job than their "economy" shot,would it be just like a professional job and last for years?What I'm looking for is a paint job that is equal to a new factory job or better.Can Maaco give me that and it actually last for 5-10 years or longer if it's taken care of properly,(i.e.Weekly wash,Monthly wax,etc.)?

Or,do I do it myself?I have no experience in body work,but my uncle is certified in auto-body.The only thing is,he doesn't really have a "paint-room".Of course,he does have the proper painting setup,he just lacks a dust-free area.He does have a shop though,so I figure that we could throw up some plastic and create a make-shift paint booth.

I just want to get it over with for a decent price.I don't really want to spend over $750,but I guess that I could mark it up to $1,000.That will make the truck look better and also have a better resale value if it ever comes down to that.

Any help on this is appreciated.If you've had any experience with Maaco or know anyone who has,let me know how it went.I know that none of you really approve of them,but if I can get a quality paint job,they'll work fine for me.

Thanks!!

Nightrain
 
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#27 ·
It is my understanding that the problem with the clear is "delaminization", where the clear is coming off of the color coat. Anything short of striping the paint and repainting, from what I have seen, will fail in a short time. The clear is coming off because of poor adhesion to the color coat. They stick together because of a chemical reaction. That is why the manufacturers have certain times specified between the coats. You cannot sand off the clear coat and not sand into the color coat to get a proper adhesion without sanding the color coat thin in spots, or leaving some of the "bad" clear on there to peel later.

Can you shoot clear over an old paint job that has no clear on it and get a good finish that will last? Possibly, if done right, with the right products. Can you shoot it over a bad finish of BC/CC, and expect to get a good finish that will last. NO!

Just my opinion, from experience. I only recommend what I have seen that works. Not what I have seen in pictures.
 
#28 ·
You can get clear acrylic enamel, it can be used like any other paint.

A few years ago, and they might still have it , Dupont had a system called 501, it consisted of a lacquer color and a acrylic enamel top coat of clear, it worked really good. I think it was in the early 90s, I used it for several years.

Troy

__________________
If you don't make mistakes. your not doing anything.

69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod
 
#29 ·
troy-curt said:
You can get clear acrylic enamel, it can be used like any other paint.

A few years ago, and they might still have it , Dupont had a system called 501, it consisted of a lacquer color and a acrylic enamel top coat of clear, it worked really good. I think it was in the early 90s, I used it for several years.

Troy

__________________
If you don't make mistakes. your not doing anything.

69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod
Troy... You are definately right. The key is that it has got to have a sound surface to adhere to. Peeling clear coat is not one, and neither is the color coat below it.
 
#30 ·
kenseth17 said:
I saw your link for the delstar. I would say that would be a good choice. Its been around longer then omni and its a polyurethane single stage, so It should be better then an acrylic enamel. It doesn't have a clear, but polyurethanes are tough paint.
By that,are you saying that it can't have clear sprayed over it?Would it shine just as good?I don't think that's a bad choice myself.It looks like really good paint.I'll get with Robert before I make my final decision and get his opinions.He's been painting all of his life,so he should know something about the best paint and way to go about painting my truck.You think a gallon of clear would do the whole truck?Would it be a good idear to go ahead and get a gallon of clear and an extra quart or two?I think that's what I'll do.The primer,paint,clear,and dent filler is all that I have to buy.He provides the sand paper,masking materials,etc. in the price he gave me.

Nightrain
 
#31 ·
quote:
__________________________________________________

Troy... You are definately right. The key is that it has got to have a sound surface to adhere to. Peeling clear coat is not one, and neither is the color coat below it

__________________________________________________

For sure you can't paint over peeling clear.

The top coats are no better than what is under them.

Troy

__________________
If you don't make mistakes. your not doing anything.

69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod
 
#32 ·
I can't see why you couldn't spray a clear over the polyurethane. But it was always my understanding that the polyurethane paints were tougher then the urethanes. At least thats what I think I remember from the many moons ago I had to study all that stuff. Yes it should have good gloss, You don't have to use a clear but I think you can if you want for a deeper look and more protection from fading. But if you are going to be putting a clear over it you might want to check the price of getting it in a basecoat compared to the polyurethane. The basecoat will dry quicker for less dirt specks, be easier to spray even if its metallic, a lot easier to work with. If you get a little mistake in the basecoat you can wait a while and wetsand it out , shoot on a little more base and your good to go. With the polyurethane, you will have to wait awhile before you can do this.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Re: maaco or my-self?

jimos67rocks said:
the way i look at it if you know someone that can paint and you want to use a paint booth-- rent one. there is always a shop around that will let you rent it.
:)
Are you sure? I used to do that but the shops around town here in B'field all shut their doors to that thanks to the EPA and CARB. They are now held responsible for every drip of paint that is sprayed in their booth and can be held criminally liable if a joker violates a tree hugger law, which is easy to do nowadays in view of Algore's global warming catastrophe unfolding before our very eyes as we speak. Oh save me, save me!!!! I don't wan't to burn up or drown in the rising sea . . . HELP ME, Al, PLEASE HELP ME!!!!:pain: :pain: :pain:

Good info here. Always do a search on this board before asking a question. There is likely a very good answer available.

http://hotrodders.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26965&highlight=temporary+paint+booth

http://hotrodders.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27167&highlight=temporary+paint+booth
 
#34 ·
I live in Wisconsin. I would hate to live by California's laws which are so regulated. If he is painting this at home, it isn't legal either. We don't even have to have our car emission tested. I thought all the tree huggers were right about the global warming after last couple of years being very mild winters, but this week we got dumped with snow, and suppose to get very cold in the next few days. Ohh how I've missed shoveling snow and scraping winshields while freezing my arse off. This state is so much fun, I think we are the 2nd or 3rd highest taxed state also.
 
#35 ·
Thanks again fellas.So the only reason that it wouldn't be a good idea to spray clear over the polyurethane is because it takes it longer to dry?I'll probably just stick with what I picked out,pick up some clear,and go.By looking at his paint facility,I don't think that dust and dirt is going to be a problem.I even thought of something else over the weekend...If I have it painted over the summer while I'm out of school,I can give him a hand and maybe learn something about painting a vehicle and maybe get a little cheaper price :D .At least I would learn something.

I'll let him worry about the extra foreign particles that get in the polyurethane while it's drying ;) .

Nightrain
 
#36 ·
Go here http://www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/p-137.pdf It will give you information on using the delstar, and tell you what clears you can use. The main reason I use basecoat painting at home is for the ease of them and the fast dry time, but you can do it your way also. Keep the paint area as clean as you can and drain the compressor before starting. Best of luck. We want pics when you are done.

I used the 2020 clear on a car once (1968 cougar 390) and was impressed with it. I saw somewhere that ppg was phasing it out. I hope not.
 
#37 ·
kenseth17 said:
Go here http://www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/p-137.pdf It will give you information on using the delstar, and tell you what clears you can use. The main reason I use basecoat painting at home is for the ease of them and the fast dry time, but you can do it your way also. Keep the paint area as clean as you can and drain the compressor before starting. Best of luck. We want pics when you are done.

I used the 2020 clear on a car once (1968 cougar 390) and was impressed with it. I saw somewhere that ppg was phasing it out. I hope not.
Thanks again.So just basically follow those instructions at that link and we should be fine?Looks like I'll have to do it in the middle of summer when the temp doesn't usually go below 80* at night,just to be safe.He doesn't have a heat room.I guess a couple of heat lamps would be okay though ;) .I just hope that the products that I buy are going to be high quality and worth the money.That's why I started out liking PPG.That may change before it's over,but I hope that I'm not dissapointed by choosing their products.I think that I'll get a gallon of the paint with 2 extra quarts and the same for the clear.We don't need to run out,whatever we do.If it has to be mixed,it will never be the same again.I can always take the extra back if the seal wasn't broken.I don't know though..I might want to hold onto it for future use.

Thanks again.

Nightrain
 
#38 · (Edited)
You should be fine with a gallon of each on a small vehicle like the ranger. Expecially with the color coat, because a gallon of it mixed with your reducer and hardener will give you almost 2 gallons sprayable, way more then enough. I guess it will take around just over a gallon to put on three coats, and even less then this if it looks good after two coats. The polyurethane should cover well. Some basecoats can be pretty transparent in some colors, but I think the polyurethane you choose will cover quick. I don't think you will be dissappointed with ppg. Just the price when you get into certain colors and pearls. But the same is also true of the other paints like dupont and sikkens is really pricey. If you need to feel better when you go to get your clear get the price on some of the color changing paints like harlequin. I asked my paint supplier once just to see and just about fell over.
 
#39 ·
Thanks again.I'll probably just get a gallon and an extra quart then of each.Of course,after we thin it,it's going to last longer anyway.So I should be able to get by with a gallon of clear?How long should he wait after he finishes spraying the final coat until he buffs it out?

One more time just to make sure,if he hits the original paint with 300,320,or 400,will we need to use any primer except for the places with dents?

Nightrain
 
#40 ·
As long as there is no deep scratches or chips that wont feather and that paint as adhearing well so it doesn't have to be stripped, you should only need primer on metal or areas with bodywork to fill scratches and get the area straight. Clear can be buffed out the next day or two. Some people wait longer, but i find it easier to buff out wetsanding scratches will the paint isn't cured really hard. Check the tech sheet for the clear you choose.
 
#41 ·
Alrighty,thanks again.If in doubt,would it hurt to hit the whole truck with a coat or two of the primer?

Okay,now for the biggie...Once the truck is painted,buffed out,and leaves to get out into the real world and it's elements,what is the BEST way possible to take care of the new paint job?I was thinking a weekly run through the car wash,monthly wax,and get the salt off of it as quickly as possible if I ever have that problem.Also,keep it out of the sun as much as possible ;) .

What's the best automotive wax to use that protects best against the elements?

Nightrain
 
#42 ·
Don't wax your new finish for 60 days to be safe. It still has solvents that leave the paint and if you wax it will trap em and can dull the surface. Keep it clean and washed, wax often, and don't use car washes with the big brushes you run through that pick all the dirt off the car before you and scratch your paint. Just take decent care of it and it should last a long time. Its always a good idea to use one of the powerwash carwash places, and get under rockers, in wheelwells, the undercarriage, any places where mud and junk can build up and start rot in the future. Don't have any recommendations on wax. Mothers is popular.
 
#43 ·
Alrighty.In that 60-day period after it's painted,I can still wash it,right?Oh believe me,I will NEVER use one of those washes with the brushes.All of the ones in town only use water.There's one on the lake that has the most power that I've ever seen for a car wash.It rocks the car as it's going through it's cycle lol.Yeah,I like the ones with the powerbrushes also.You can get alot of those hard-to-reach places that some automatic washes can't get.The undercarriage wash in some of those automatic washes is a saint though :D .

Nightrain
 
#44 ·
It wouldn't hurt to prime it, but really not needed if the finish on it is adhearing well. Just add to your material bill. Sometimes shooting a sealer before spraying the color is a good idea. In fact you can use some primers as a sealer, they are just reduced more.

Yes you can wash it. Just dry it afterwards to prevent waterspotting.
 
#45 ·
Alrighty.Thanks again.Usually,what does a gallon of PPG's Primer cost?

So,here's my current material list:

Primer (Not Sure How Much At This Point)
PPG DAR Acrylic Enamel Paint (1 Gallon)
Proper Reducer & Hardener For Paint
PPG 2020 Clear (1 Gallon)
Proper Reducer & Hardener For Clear

So should I add sealer to this list?If so,what kind?

Nightrain
 
#46 ·
Your list looks good. Have your painter decide if he wants to shoot a sealer. Its really your decision and if you want to spend the extra money. I am not sure on the price of the primer, because I have bought Marhyde primer lately. I am guessing the clear will run in the $150 range. I can tell your ready to paint this thing now, lol. I still get excited about painting, and I have no idea how many cars I've sprayed. Well unless something goes really bad, which most often it doesn't. All the work is time consuming but I like it. Make sure you estimate your last coat of the color and the clear close when you mix it with the reducer and hardener, because any extra mixed will harden up and can't be used later.
 
#47 ·
Yes sir,I'm ready to paint :D .

I just printed some product sheets,and I found the primer that I think that I'll get.It's PPG's DZL Primer Surfacer.I looked at the product sheets on it and also the sheets on the DAR that you gave me and they're compatible with each other.Now I just have to find some clear.

PPG doesn't have any product sheets on their clears at their website.I think that I'll go with that 2020 Concept that you reccomended.Will that work for my application?If the primer isn't expensive,I think that I'll just get Robert to shoot a coat on the Ranger before he applies the first coat of paint just to insure that it will bond correctly.It's better to be safe than sorry.So,if I go that route,just rough up the original paint,spray the primer,paint,clear,and go.Is that right?Do I still need to have a sealer shot between the sanding and the primer?

What do you use to clean up the vehicle's body after you finish sanding?What grit do you reccomend most to sand the original paint,and wet or dry?He'll know what to do on those dents.I'm not going to get into those lol.Yes,this seems to be time consuming work,but hey,it's something that gets me going.Plus,your ride looks alot better when you finish.What do you use to dry your vehicles when you finish washing them?

Before I started this thread,my knowledge on painting a vehicle was limited,but with the help of you and the other members that cared to drop in and post some advice really helped.Of course,I'm still going to let Robert do this job.He just might have a partner hanging around though :D .

Nightrain
 
#48 ·
find any areas that are going to need bodywork and mark them. Feather out any chips or scratches. Sand the whole truck.400 wet will give you a little better finish, but time consuming. You could take a da with 320 for speed and go over it with 400 wet if you want a slicker surface. They also make da's that are used to wetsand with if you want to buy one of them. After you have it all sanded blow off the car well or wash it and dry. Check for any spots that still have shine and sand them. You can use a scotchbrite pad in hard to sand spots. When you have it all sanded take it and have your guy do the bodywork. When he is priming his bodywork areas have him check the feathered areas and see if they are gonna need a shot of primer. After the primer is all blocked and straight, sand the last coat of primer with 400 wet. Wash the car with a little dishwashing soap and water. Blow out all the cracks good. When its good and dry do any masking you have to do. Take a wax and grease remover over the surface and then tack. Shoot on your sealer, One coat usually will do. After enough time has passed tack. Spray on your color coats with flash in between. You don't have to sand the sealer if everything goes right. After you have your color coats on and its all covered, wait the right amount of time and spray 3 coats of clear with flash between coats. Wet sand with 1000 or 1500 out any dirt specks, orange peel, or little runs and buff in a day or two. Be carefull when wetsanding and buffing to stay away from corners and bodylines, these areas go through faster then you think. Wash the truck and get rid of compound splatter and might take a toothbrush in intricate areas. Dry with a chamios and then apply something like race glaze after its dry. Taadaa, brand new truck. People will gaze in amazement. PPG should have product sheets for the clears on thier site. I think you will enjoy hanging around there once the shiny color coats and clear start going on, If something does go wrong, don't panic, it can be fixed, just costs extra time and more spraying or might be able to be wetsanded and buffed out, but might wanna give the painter a little space in this event and it is rare if hes been doing it for awhile.

Ohh forgot to say take of any trim you want off and to unmask after buffing, but you probably knew that.
 
#49 ·
Man,all of this really helps.Thanks a million!!Now,what exactly is a DA Sander?Is it one of those that simply vibrates?

So I can hit the truck with 320 on the DA right off,then hand-sand it with 400 wet?Now,the 400 grit...Is it that black sandpaper that you get at Wal-Mart made by 3M?I saw that and I was wondering.I forget the other name for it.

So anyway,after the sanding is done,have him do the bodywork.After the feathering is perfect,shoot it with a single coat of primer and hit it with 400 wet.After that task is completed,wash the truck and blow out all of the seams,cracks,etc. with an air compressor.Then,mask it.Hit it with wax and grease remover and then tack.Is there a certain cloth that you have to use to tack?Then,spray on the color coats.Now the flash is the sanding in between coats,correct?What did you say was the best grit for that?Then,shoot the 3 coats of clear.Finish with 1500 grit and then buff in a couple of days.Now the race glaze,what's that?Sorry that I don't know what all of these products are :) .

Sounds like it should be fun.I'm going to call him on Tuesday and further discuss this job with him and get his opinions on some things.He made the comment when I called him for the quote that he didn't mind me staying around.He'll probably need me anyway because I need to have the back of the cab sprayed,and we'll have to remove the bed for that.But,that's no problem because I'll just put in my new fuel pump and sending unit before I take it to him,and I'll just sit the bed back down on the truck,securing it with a couple of the bolts.Then,I'll just have someone follow me down there.The bed on these Ranger's don't weigh much.When me and dad took one of his buddy's Ranger beds off,it only took me and him.I bet that they don't weight 100lbs.I want to be sure that I get him to paint behind the cab and the front of the bed.If we have to,we can just put the bed back on it when we're done.I think that it will be easier to paint the cab,and then paint the bed while it's sitting on some milk crates or something.Who knows...We'll work something out ;) .

Those little beds come off with 6 bolts,one electrical connector for the lights,the fuel hose assembly,and two people to lift it off.If we leave it off when we paint it though,we need to be careful not to bump any of the newly painted surfaces when we put it back on :pain: .

Nightrain
 
#50 ·
you got everything right, except the sanding between color coats. You don't have to sand between the color coats. You put as much primer on as needed, whatever it takes you to get the amount of fill you need. With experience you can feel when you got things straight and filled. You don't have to prime the feathered areas if they are feathered out good and there is no metal, but it wouldn't hurt if you did. The wetsanding paper is the dark paper like you said designed to be sanded when the surface is kept wet. A da sander just describes the motion the sander takes, or Dual action you can get them at most stores that carry tools like sears. A tack rag is just a sticky material rag that is used to pick up dust that lands on the surface. Any paint supplier will have them and they are cheap so maybe you want to pick up a couple. Wait the day or so after painting and it can be wetsanded and buffed on the same day. I forgot about the bed, but with a gallon of each you should have more then enough. If anything skimp a little on the clear in the bed the color coat will be shiny anyways and it will be hard to wetsand and buff it.It will be easier on the painter if you take the bed off, that way he can easily get the area between the bed and cab, because nothing will be in the way.

Flash is just a term to describe the amount of time it takes for the paint to dry long enough for another coat. It will tell you time between coats on your tech sheets.
 
#51 ·
sniff--sniff--something doesn't smell right here.:confused:

Troy

__________________
If you don't make mistakes. your not doing anything.

69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod
 
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